the same boat with the same dimensions? I thought that the Shadow 16 was a 22.25" wide shorter version of the Sea Lion, but I'm in contact with someone trying to sell what they say is a Shadow 16 and giving the specs of an Eclipse 16, which is 23.5" wide and saying that the two boats are the same.
Are the Shadow 16 and Eclipse 16 the same boat with the same dimensions?
The Perception web site is no help, because they don't have the dimensions on the Shadow boats listed in the dicontinued section.
I searched the P.net archives and the internet and got conflicting information.
Specs provided by a p.netter: I have 2004 and 2005 catalogs for perception. 2004 shows a
“Shadow 16.5 Composite” with the following stats: Length- 16’6"/Width- 22"/Weight- 46"/ Cockpit 35.75x18.25"/Deck Height- 12"/ Total storage Capacity 8050 in3/Maximin Load 350#
The Eclipse 16.o doesn’t show up until 2005. The stats are: Material “Exolar”/Length 16’3"/ Width 22.75"/Weight 62#/Cockpit 34x19/Storage Cap. (in.) 8500/Maximum load 325#
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Thanks for those specs.
2006 brochure listed and Eclipse 16.0 that is a “Polyethylene Hyper-Density Resin”, but doesn’t list a composite either. Stats- length 16.1/width 23.5/weight 58#/cockpit 34x19 /deck height 13"/max. capacity 325#.
Back when Aquaterra was the touring line and Perception was the Whitewater boats, there was the Sea Lion. Then it became the Perception Eclipse Sea Lion. Then just the Eclipse, finally the Eclipse 17. There were also smaller boats in the Perception family, the Shadow and the Carona. The boats evolved over time and the molds were changed. I believe the Eclipse 16 was a scaled down version of the latest revision, the Eclipse 17 and was intended to replace the Shadow 16, but was actually a bit bigger in the cockpit. Perception quit making composite boats a few years ago. I believe they were done with composites before the Eclipse 16/17 were released. So besides a slight revision, you are also comparing dimensions of a plastic boat to a composite boat. The Shadows that I remember are about 22" wide and something like 16’6" or 16’8" long.
My timeline is a bit fuzzy.
I seem to recall the catalogue indicated that the plastic Eclipse 16 replaced the plastic Shadow 16, but I think they were done with composites in 2005, which is when the Eclipse 15/17 were introduced.
I talked to Perception today and these are the specs they had:
Model…Material…Length…Width…Cockpit…Depth
Sea Lion…Fiberglass…17’2"…22.5"…33" x 16"…N/A
Shadow 16.5…Kevlar…16’6"…22"…35.75" x 18.25"…12"
…
It puzzles me that the Shadow 16.5, which is supposed to be for a smaller person, has a larger cockpit opening than the Sea Lion. The guy at Perception said that what makes the biggest difference in fit for the smaller person, in this case, is the about 2" lower deck height in the Shadow 16.5. IIRC, the deck height on my Sea Lion is about 14".
…
The specs that he had for the Eclipse are the same as listed above.
Shadow 16.5 cockpit measurements: I talked to an actual owner of a kevlar Shadow 16.5 today and he measured the INSIDE DIMENSIONS of the cockpit for me while we talked on the phone and I told him what I wanted:
Length x width: 33" x 15.5"
Depth to underside of front edge of cockpit: 12.25"
…
My fiberglass Sea Lion cockpit inside dimensions (measured just 20 minutes ago):
Length x width: 32.5" x 15.5"
Depth to underside of front edge of cockpit: 13.0
…
The outside edge measurements of my Sea Lion are about the same as those given to me by Perception today for the kevlar Shadow 16.5 dimensions, so it appears that the cockpit dimensions listed by Perception for the Sea Lion are for the inside edge of the cockpit coaming and for the Shadow 16.5 are for the outside edge of the coaming.
It really would be appreciated if cockpit dimensions were measured and reported consistantly throughout each manufacturer and throughout the industry instead of some using the inner edge and some using the outer edge.
The same could be said for depth measurements - some measure to the underside of the deck at the front and rear edge of the coaming and some measure to the top of the front and rear edge of the coaming.
These inconsistencies make it really difficult to compare boats for fit via the listed specs.
It’s definately wider, but the common myth is that the Eclipse is the renamed Shadow 16.5.
Even the seller of the kevlar Shadow 16.5 that I was bidding on thought that the Eclipse 16 specs that he listed in his ad were the same for his Shadow 16.5 that was for sale. That’s what prompted me to start this thread.
My recollection is that some of the reviews suggest that the Eclipse 16 is the renamed Shadow.
When I bought my Corona in 2000… Perception had 2 lines of plastic sea kayaks above the Carolina Series…the Eclipse and it’s baby sister the Corona …the Shadow and it’s sibling the Sole’ The Eclipse and Corona had the same height higher decks than the same for the Shadow and Sole’
good info Good info on the history of this boat. I always thought it was the slightly smaller version of the eclipse which was just the old aquaterra sea lion. This past summer I bought a heavily used plastic shadow and have enjoyed it very much. It’s actually just as fast as my new Chatham 17, but not nearly as stable and it does tend to weathercock more. I’m just under 200 lbs and if it’s really for a lighter paddler it must weathercock even worse for them. I’m probably gonna sell my shadow on acct of not enough storage space. I have to say, given it’s age its a nice looking and decent performing touring yak. A couple of pics:
the first plastic Eclipse was made at the same time as the first plastic Shadow.
They are great boats, and are not only good for the ocean but good for white water.
We have kept ours, (I have the Eclipse and my wife has the Shadow) for a annual race in the New River and both boats are still in great condition.
I have posted a picture before of mine starting into a class III in the Keebler Vally run which is in the Dan river.
Here it is again [URL=http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1502557103049732290dxLaCP
Just beyond where the picture was taken, the drop got much worse.
To this day, the compartments have never leaked a drop, and they have been in a lot of rough ocean water.
Eclipse I sold my old eclipse when I bought my new boat and I kinda miss it. Like JackL mentions, I used to treat my long eclipse like a white water boat in rapids. I could catch eddies, ferry and peel out like a pro. There wasn’t a wave I couldn’t surf on white water. Good all around boat.
