perspective
I got into paddling when I was in my early thirties after bike racing and my goals weren’t becoming a bigger, faster engine on a kayak. It was just to float around. From what I’ve seen of the average sea kayak customer in a kayak shop they aren’t going in the direction of racing and max velocity. While the 700 can definately be made to go faster than the 600. The 600 is definately faster than the average sea kayak. The sense I get from folks here is the original poster should skip the 700 and get a Huki or EFT.
Uh…
– Last Updated: Aug-23-07 8:02 AM EST –
I did?
Not sure about that...but I'll definitely endorse the concept of learning to roll. The lack of a roll is currently holding me back.
And I'm not on the QCC payroll.
En Englais?
– Last Updated: Aug-23-07 8:13 AM EST –
Help me out here, guys.
Huki...EFT? Aren't those big water surfers? I've seen Hukis out off of Windward Oahu where we have family. (Anyone ever been out to the Mokes?) But I don't think I'd want them around here in New England. Or do I...?
DOH!
– Last Updated: Aug-23-07 10:45 AM EST –
My apologies. Not enough sleep.
I'll say it again. The rear deck of the 600 is way high. Several here wouldn't pass over a boat based on that. I did. I really hated it after paddling boats with low rear decks.
If you're going to buy QCC, get the 700. But since you're asking for opinions here... my opinion is you should expand your list of 'maybes' and try lots of manufacturer's boats before you commit to a purchase.
Good luck with your roll and your new boat!
L
No but that would be a logical progression
No,
that’s not what has been said here. It’s a progression, if I had started with the EFT from the beginning I’d probably be jogging now instead of paddling, why? Because taking on a boat that would of at the time (with the skill set I had)been way too much and the learning curve too steep would of probably frustrated me and I would of said that it wasn’t for me, the natural progression to be challenged just a bit more made it enjoyable and rewarding. Poster indicated that speed/performance is an important criteria. The 600 will provide enough speed but for the money(which is the same) the 700 will be a better all around boat.
HEX
determining what you want
if you want to go faster, faster, faster then chuck that Tsunami and get a racing boat. If you like to jog you don’t need a touring kayak suitable for racing, if you like to RUN then you probably will. It all gets down to what YOU want.
If you jog 90% of the time and want the potential to race then the 700 is a great choice, if you walk 90% of the time and jog 10% then maybe all that potential is just for talking. Like owning a 4x4SUV or 300hp sports car for commuting.
It’s all about what you want.
Thanks…
– Last Updated: Aug-23-07 10:08 AM EST –
This thread shows the strength of this forum: ask for comments and you get them in all forms - discussions, debates, advice and questions. The questions posed back are the best for someone like me; they force me to think more clearly about what I want to do with the kayak.
I'm sensitive about the speed issue because I've worked on my forward stroke and technique enough that I want to ramp up the steady pace. I'm not looking for a rocket, but I do want a kayak that wont limit me in that regard. I don't get at all worn out in my present boat; I can paddle pretty consistently over long distances without fatigue, but there's a definite speed point where it suddenly becomes a lot more effort to move the kayak along. If I dial it back a notch, all is well and I can seemingly crank out the miles without a sweat.
I am indeed trying lots of kayaks, and so far I've been surprised at the ones that seemed best suited to me. Not the longest or the narrowest either. There's a striking contrast with my present boat.
The QCC line interests me, but its hard to give one a trial run. That said, the company seems to make a good faith effort to accomodate that issue.
I'll update the forum when I finally get around to making a decision. Your advice and opinions are duly noted and valued.
Thanks.
FYI
– Last Updated: Aug-24-07 2:02 PM EST –
Look at todays classifieds,, Envyabull is selling a 700 (I think he had two)in the CT area for less than a grand,, if anything touch base with him in that he has worked with J. Winters on a design and has alot of input on the QCC's.
Your profile states you are in Mass.,, you might want to try going to the weekly training/paddles on the Charles(5 miles +/-) at Newton on Wednesday evenings,, I have seen QCC results in the past on there site so chances are you'll find some boats there that they may let you try (plus many other performance oriented boats)that the shop carries. I believe there website is www.ski-paddle.com ,, you can link to the weekly races at Newton and scroll for the individual weekly results. Many knowledgeable paddlers, builders and designers there.
Good luck,
HEX
What about the 500?
Where does the 500 come in? All this talk about the 600 vs. the 700. Do we forget about the 500?
Not a contender IMO - different league
As I said above - 400/500 are older designs that actually predate QCC selling kayaks directly (they manufactured for Swift before that). Quite different from 600/700 (except same coaming, outfitting, and great build quality).
500 is very good for what it is - and has a place in the market - but is deeper and and wider (as in BIG) and not as fast (but still no slouch) as 600/700.
The 500 is the big SUV of the family (with 400 being the minivan or small SUV). 600/700 are sport sedans in comparison.
I know of several who moved from 500s to 700s and were very happy they did. If you well are over 250lbs, and/or seriously stability challenged, and/or doing extended camping on quieter waters (say you needed to live out of a kayak for a year or so, but have something against canoes) - then maybe look at the 500.
I went from QCC700 to Surfski
I recently switched from a QCC700 to a Huki S1R surfski. The transition was very easy. I am 5’ - 9" tall and weigh from 200 - 220 depending on my fitness level. I think the QCC700 is the best performance sea kayak for heavier paddlers in open water conditions. If speed, efficiency, surfability are important to you, then the QCC700 will serve you well on open water.
I developed a strong wing paddle forward stroke with full-time rudder using the QCC700. The 700 is a kayak that will reward you for refining your forward stroke technique. Once you have mastered the wing paddle, a transition to surfski will be quite easy.
I could go anywhere and seeked out rough water and waves because the QCC is an awesome open water surfing boat. I registered a top speed of 15 mph while surfing ocean swells once. I never understood why all the supposedly good rough water British kayaks were never out there when the conditions just started to get fun. The QCC700 loves the same type of conditions that surfskiers love.
I had been dreaming of switching to surfski for the last few seasons once the water warmed up, but just did not pull the trigger. A few months ago I finally purchased a Huki S1R. The plan was to keep my all-carbon QCC700 for rough or cold days. However, I took to the Huki S1R so easily that I actually feel safer in the surfski despite less stability. I’ve fallen off the ski twice in rougher water, but was back onboard and paddling again in about 30 seconds. No more worrying about nailing a roll in rough water. I also now can ride a wave right into the beach and just jump off at the last minute. With any sit in kayak, making a quick pit-stop on shore is always a process. The ski is so easy. Just sit down and go. No bailing, no wedging myself into a cockpit, no skirt, none of this as the next wave is about to break over you.
A surfski is so liberating to me. My only regret is not committing to a ski sooner.
“easy transition” vs. “commitment”
– Last Updated: Aug-23-07 4:42 PM EST –
Care to comment more?
I can't quite get the ski bug out of may head (maybe because I see one [first a UX, currently a Mark 1] hanging in my carport everyday) but have not had time or discipline to really give it a go.
After long absences I'll do a couple flat water re-acquaint sessions where I can gingerly manage to stay on and moving - but if and when I do dump I get a reality check regarding remounts.
I find them to be a LOT (as in 50X) harder than rolling, and very unpractical for self rescue at my level - at least with the Mark 1's high sides, stiffening rails, and deep snug seat. It was much easier with the smoother/shallower UX which I could just hang out on side saddle for a bit if needed.
The ski just isn't much fun (except for entertaining others) and the "bug" gets squashed again after a couple of these sessions. Then I don't touch it for several months and am back to square one. Been doing this counter-productive routine a few years now. Last time finally convinced me to put the Mark 1 up for sale.
The Mark 1 is considered "stable" by surf ski standards - but too much of a jump for me at my current or near term fitness and commitment level (even though I consider the 700 to be as stable as a dock).
Hex's comments about incremental steps makes a good point - particularly for someone like me who just can't seem get time on the water a few times a week and commit it to the ski.
I think I'd benefit from a more intermediate/forgiving hull with a wider bucket (hard for me to just drop into the seat on this ski - further complicating remounts).
Thinking Epic V-10 Sport (have you tried?) or S-1R. Choice for me would come down to ease of remount over most other considerations. I'm about your size. Either this, or just scrap the whole idea for awhile - go through a couple intermediate kayaks (working on wing/rudder use) - and maybe come back to a ski later (and lighter)... Unless that Mohican is as stable as he says it is...
No way
To me the 700 is the perfect do all sea kayak.
You will not be going camping by using a EFT or surf ski.
It wouldn’t surprise me if my 700 hasn’t got more mileage on it than any other 700 out there, and about fifty percent of that is island hopping.
Twenty five percent is lake or river paddling and twenty five percent is racing or race training.
I don’t think many with surf skis or EFTS can make a statement like that.
Cheers,
JackL
I get the impression that rolling is
More important to you than kayaking.
I may be wrong but wasn’t rolling a means to an end rather than the end.
Some Days it Is.
Some days it ain’t. Some days you want to go kayaking. Some days you want to go rolling.
Ski Progression
Greyak,
I know from where you speak. Also owned a Mark 1. In the right hands, it’s a fine boat. I lent mine out one time to a racer for a local event and he proceeded to win AND set a course record on it. Unfortunately, I never could sit it right in anything even approaching conditions. While it has considerable secondary stability, I think its high volume bow and significant rocker might be responsible for a high profile in the water and constant twitchiness that was never confidence inspiring for me. Interestingly, I rarely swam off it except in the very first days of ownership and only then twice, but where others would be chatting away in beam chop on their skis, I’d be concentrating and throwing the occasional brace.
Then I bought a used Mako XT. Hey, this thing is SO stable in comparison, and actually lots of fun! It was a bit slower than the Mark and certainly much heavier in its fg incarnation vs. the carbon of the Mark, but I could paddle and converse, and even look around. What’s better, I started hunting out boat wakes and swells/wind chop, feeling pretty confident that I could handle them on the XT. If I ‘huli’d’, I could also easily scramble back on.
A couple of friends own the V10 Sport, in the super light, super fragile Ultra layup. I’ve spent ample time in this one also, as we enjoy swapping boats for comparison from time to time. The Sport is fast, noticeably so than the XT, maybe on a par with my EFT, or a hair quicker. It also has less intial stability, somewhere between the Mark and the XT. It does have quite a bit of secondary for a ski though-you can heel it right over and drag the rails in the water and paddle it that way. The thing is, it doesn’t feel that way from the onset, you have to explore those limits and then begin to trust in them. The single footwell, although it holds gallons of water and drains slowly, is wonderful for mechanics. You can rotate, rotate, rotate. I wish they offered it with a small hatch for storage of items in a stow sack and for drinking bladder use. IMHO, the Ultra construction is mainly a race boat. Every individual I know that has this layup has either punctured, dented, or dimpled it more than once. After paddling this boat, I climbed into a V10 Ultra and thought it quite a bit more confidence inspiring than the Mark 1 also in terms of initial stability. The Mark has higher limits on edge I think than the V10, but the V10 will run away and hide in terms of sheer speed.
Ordered the S1-R based on glowing recommendations from all who have paddled it, even though I have not yet myself. Took a leap of faith on the QCC also and was not disappointed, so… I know Envyabull is loving his, as is everyone else I know of who has one. Jude has at least 8 different build layups to meet all wallets and intents for use. You can spec hatches and bungees everywhere, there are at least as many rudder choices and even a carbon kick up rudder swap, made by Pat of Onnopaddles, for river racing/rocky shallows. Colors choices and custom graphics round it out, and from what I hear and have noted on others’ boats, his build quality is superb. Fingers crossed and dying of anticipation. Will post my impressions after some time with the boat.
Maybe give the other skis a try if you can get your hands on any of the above. The new crop of skis are fast AND stable. And fun. Pure D fun.
So is your choice purely based on
Rolling, shouldn’t other factors be considered ?
You can try one of my QCC700s
I am in Southeastern, Connecticut so can’t be more than an 1.5 hour from anywhere in Massachusetts.
I would be happy to let you try either of my QCC700s if you have some interest in possibly purchasing my like new 2008 all-carbon for $2600 or year 2000 all-Kevlar for $999.
I work 6 days a week selling large sail and power boats, so scheduling will be the hard part for me. I also need to spemd time with my girlfriend so I am lucky to sneak in 2 - 3 paddles/week. But I bet she would be happy to see me sell one of my kayaks. I am 100% committed to the surfski at this point, so I am willing to part with my QCC700’s.
The best time to get together to try a QCC700 would probably be in the evening after work around 5:30. We can launch right here at my marina on the Mystic River.
Anyone interested should email me on the side.
Lots of Factors to Consider