Agree
I find the Avocet pretty easy to work with for off-balance stuff - in fact since the volume is too much for me it makes some of this stuff easier. Once I get it over towards its side it’ll reall hold me up.
But the bow wake on the Romany is significant. If you look at it side by side with an Explorer, you’ll see that the Romany seat is actually further back in the boat rather than centered like the Explorer. It may be too much of a play boat for you to use as a day tourer depending on the distance and spped you want to make.
Yeah - I do know people who use the boat that way. But they are much, much better paddlers in terms of their forward stroke than most.
What’s a “dry design” coaming?
> and as far as coamings go, i still can’t believe
that a dry design is so rare in sea kayaks, when
it is a huge deal in white water kayaks.
Dry Cockpit…
I think that comment is referring to a problem that I have with my Aquanaut.
I always get water in the cockpit when rolling. At first I thought that there was some sort of leak in the cockpit coaming, but I recently found out what the problem is.
The spary skirt (despite being the right size) fits the coaming such that there is a slight gap / loosness around the 3 and 9 O’clock positions. I have been told this is common with Valley boats.
Matt
Water in the cockpit when rolling
Gee, I think I’ve always had water in the cockpit when practicing rolling – several different boats too. I mainly use a snapdragon skirt, medium deck, I believe. It seems pretty snug around the coaming. But I’ve never stopped to think where the water could be getting in – always assumed it was normal. Maybe I should check that spot.
Thanks. --David.
Thanks
I’m not sure that I’d buy a Romany, but it’s on the list. I’ve paddled it before and am mainly interested in opinions on the Nordkapp LV.
I once paddled a 560 mile trip in a kayak with six inches of bow and stern rocker. I never got around to adding a skeg, so I’ve had plenty of practice with boats that refuse to go straight and making them go straight. You’d be surprised how quickly you adjust to make it go straight when you have to.
Interesting Observation
Today, I used a skirt that was way to tight for the Avocet because I got sick of sitting in a pool of water after demonstrations. It didn’t do any better than my looser skirt. Makes sense.
I checked my Valley boats
– Last Updated: Aug-07-06 9:54 AM EST –
If somebody is saying there is a congenital leak at 3:00 and 9:00 on the coaming, it's probably because of the shape of the coaming and/or mounting opening.
OK, just checked my new Aquanaut and RM Avocet (yep, I'm a Valley Guy). Under the coaming, on the -- what would you call it, the short vertical wall upon which the comaning is mounted; or maybe that's part of the coaming -- there is a distinct inward bend, a kind of "bay" at 3:00 and 9:00, just where the top of the coaming juts out in a flange, presumably to serve as a knee brace.
No skirt, no matter how tight, is going to close that gap; it's gonna stretch across it, and it seems that water is gonna come in when practicing rolling.
The RM Avocet, OTOH, has no such inward bend -- the skirt fits snugly all around.
Now, the RM Avocet gets just as much water in the cockpit during rolling practice. That's right... the above observations seem to be irrlelevant.
So what's going on.
--David.
Fair enough
Salty,
Thanks for the response. I see your point. I still enjoy hearing what others have to say in the absence of being alble to make my own observations (don’t live too close to shops that carry the boats I would like to paddle)
Matt
Spray skirt tunnel
In order to be sure that it is the cockpit fit that is causing the water to enter and not the spray skirt tunnel around your waist you really need to try rolling with a drysuit or drytop that has a reliable spray skirt tunnel. This will minimize or eliminate the possibility of the water entering from the waist tunnel.
Someone pointed out the gap on the coaming to me as a general characteristic of Valley boats. He said that a solution he has used is to glue some foam in under the rim in that location in order to stretch the skirt rand at that location. I have not seen his fix, but it makes sense.
I can say that my last boat (Dagger Meridian) did not have this problem. I could roll with that boat using a dry or semi-dry top and not get water in the cockpit…like none.
Matt
Valley (Seals) skirt
I get some trickle on the sides in my Aquanaut with every neoprene decked skirt I’ve used except the Valley branded all neo skirt made by Seals.
exactly!!
yes this is the issue i’m speaking of with my Valley. NDK has the same issue. this is one design element on these boats, but there are other issues with different boats. i’d love to see the Meridian (i’d also like to paddle one, i hear they fit bigger guys ok) and other cockpits that some consider dry.
DLEWIS asked the right question- so what the hell is a dry cockpit/coaming anyways? i’m not entirely sure, but if you look at a CD Gulfstream, you will see a deep lipped, oval coaming, basically egg shaped. with the right spray deck, it lets in very little water. like sprinkles. some might think i’m being anal here, and they’d be right, but i don’t think it is ridiculous to want a dry cockpit. i want to go out in cold weather with my drytop (double tunnel) on and basically any pants for a couple hours in the surf or tide race, rolling, the works, and not have a cockpit with a liter or more of water in it. i don’t always want to wear my drysuit and i have a reliable roll. i know ww kayak guys who NEVER wear a drysuit in frigid, snowmelt waters, roll all day then brag about how dry their cockpits are. this is a “thing” in the ww world, why do sea kayakers just think it is normal to have sodden cockpits all the time?
i’ve really gotten on this kick lately and it has me jonesing for a Gulfstream. it is a wicked maneuverable kayak, fun as hell and has the best seat, cockpit and brilliant coaming i’ve ever seen. that might sound odd, but next time you see one check out the coaming. sit in it and put on a spray skirt and check out the fit. simple perfection. i even inquired with a kayak repair specialty shop (they do anything) about having my Nordkapp coaming replaced with a Gulf coaming, but they said it would cost a fortune with uncertain results.
the perfect kayak still does not exist, and i want it!
Same problem
I’ve noticed the same problem when wearing a drysuit with a tunnel. And a spray skirt that fit like … I don’t know … let’s just say it took a long time to get the tunnel on because it was so tight.
Avocet thigh braces
I have a poly avocet and have had similar issues with the thigh braces. The boat fits me perfectly I’de be interested in any suggestions…
“the perfect kayak still does not exist,
and i want it!”
Amen, brother!
Sorry
– Last Updated: Aug-07-06 12:34 PM EST –
for many situations, the perfect Kayak does already exist.....some tweeking still needs to be done , for the perfect kayak for other sized people and other applications....the perfect on / off bike doesn't exist and never will......a do eveything perfectly kayak doesn't exist and never will either.......pick what you want to do and buy the bike/kayak to fit that application....no rule against owning several differant kayaks that are all perferct for what you want to do that day...
Best Wishes
Roy
PS....I own several "PERFECT" kayaks
PPS....Bryan....the Nordkapp LV felt more like a large Avocette to me than like a small Nordkapp...they even chopped the tail, to what is deemed "modern" ....go paddle one, see for yourself
All Valley composite keyholes the same
Unfortunately, unlike NDK, P&H, and CD, Valley puts the same size keyhole coaming on all their composite boats.
The Nordkapp LV cockpit feels roomier than a composite Avocet cockpit because the decks are higher.
Poly Valley boats have snugger cockpit coamings than their composite kin.
Valley (Seals) skirt
My major issue with the ‘Valley’ all neo skirt is that the deck is not reinforced. I put my finger through the deck (near the bungee) while putting the skirt on the coaming within a year of owning the skirt.
I also added a length of tubing on the grab loop. This is a very tight skirt on the boat and takes a lot of effort to get on and off – especially in cold weather/water.
Now if Valley would issue an all neo spray skirt with reinforced deck (such as the Seals Extreme Tour)I’d order e new one in a flash.
I would like to paddle the NK…
I would really like to try paddling one of the NK LVs. At 5’8, 175lbs, I think it would be a great boat for my height and weight (Valley’s website says it is optimized for about a 180 pound paddler.
While I have not paddled one, I would think that it would combine the length, tracking and speed of the Aquanaut with some of the playfullness and maneuverability of the Avocet.
This is just a guess of course, but I would think it would be a sweet boat.
matt
length, tracking and speed
– Last Updated: Aug-07-06 4:31 PM EST –
At 6' 165-170 pounds I found the Nordkapp LV more playful than the Aquanaut. It does have a shorter waterline (more rocker),lower primary, and vaguer secondary than the Aquanaut.
The 'kapp LV seems to track fine.
It felt quicker (off the dime) but did not feel as fast as the Aquanaut - felt as if it hit the wall sooner (at a lower speed).
Weighting the stern (thereby lightening the bow) of an Aquanaut seems to increase its responsiveness ;-)
Makes sense…
Your comments sound about how I would imagine the boat given reviews I have read from others and given the general characteristics of the boat.
I am learning that it is all about trade-offs and finding the boat that combines the trade-offs you are willing to make for the attributes you are seeking.
I think the NK LV sounds like a nice compromise between the characteristics of the Avocet and Aquanaut. If someone were choosing between these two boats and could only have one, then maybe the NK would be a good choice…but if you can have two (like those of us who just found a killer deal on a used boat 
then you can have the best of both worlds and choose the right boat for the conditions.
Matt