is not relevant unless you can convince all the sea kayak manufacturers to replace "low volume" with "low displacement volume" when they talk about boats for small paddlers.
I'm happy enough that they are finally making a decent variety of boats truly tuned for small paddlers. If low volume works for the industry to describe a boat that is less effort for a small paddler (me) to push thru the water, I'll take it.
For what it's worth, most of our sailing friends talk about hull volume meaning displacement, even if unspoken. They care much more about how well the hull is sitting in the water when it's over at 40 degrees of heel than how tall an object they can store in the galley. I've often thought of kayak hulls as little sailboats.
Without the length and the deck dimensions it’s really hard to even begin to get a visual sense of the boat. It’d also be great to see a top down view of the deck. So there isn’t much to go on.
Can’t wait I can’t wait to try the Pilgrim Explorer. Been struggling a while to find a replacement for my old Sirius. I had high hopes for both the Tiderace Xplore_S and the Nordkapp LV. However with only 136 pounds in the seat the bow wouldn’t stay in the water at cruising speed. Lets hope Nigel gets this right!
Audience The audience for this thread is people who fit the small paddler category and, after a long time not having their needs well met, are likely to understand what low volume means in performance very well. Also people who are coming from a mostly/kayaking background, or a very long time in it, rather than canoes where smaller paddlers are often paddling a boat that is on the big/wide side because of how they use the boat.
Alternative to toggles Monkey fist knot, can be used to create a nice, non-noisy round ball at the end of short line that can replace the usual toggles. It has the same advantage as restringing the toggle so it’s a single line rather than a loop. It reduces the likelihood of getting a finger caught in twisted rope during a rescue, but is still a solid hold.
I frankly haven’t mastered this knot, because a local paddler has and has been making and sharing monkey balls with fellow paddlers. But it is apparently mostly a matter of working out the length and diameter of static line that works best.
"most grab perimeter lines" I’ve found in surf that most times it is an end toggle that gets grabbed if a boat gets loose or has to be swum into the beach.
I’d been pretty happy with Valley’s toggle keeper system, but have migrated to monkey fists and have found them very handy, particularly in surf etc…
Back to the volume thing… I’m confused: Isn’t it reasonable to say that displacement volume is strictly dependent on the weight of boat and paddler? For instance, a 160 pound paddler in a 40 pound boat will displace 200 pounds of water? It seems that ‘total volume’ would be the only thing boat companies can talk about?
I’ve grown to appreciate 40 lbs or less. I’m not into needing to use lots of gizmos to get my boat too and from the water and on and off of my car. I’ve got shoulder, back and knee issues.
Lighter is better for me, but it’s often three or four times as expensive as similar sized plastic boats (30 lb Epic 16x vs 57 lb Wilderness Systems Tempest 165), so my only fairly light kayak is a used Phoenix Isere at 40 lbs with added air bags, backband and seat.
My 56 lb composite Aquaterra Sea Lion stays on the rack (in the garage) most of the time in favor of the Isere, 45 lb Q400X or one of the 31 to 34 lb solo canoes, even though I greatly enjoy the fit and handling of the Sea Lion. Light is preferred for me - especially after strenuous paddling.
At 5’6" and 155 lbs and a lightly loaded day tripper (usually less than three hours), all of my kayaks are higher volume (both storage and displacement wise) than I need. The composite Sea Lion actually has the best cockpit fit of my boats.
I’m not a sea kayaker and may never paddle in conditions that warrant a full blown sea kayak, but I enjoy the playfullness of the comosite Sea Lion and it’s relatively narrow paddling station - 22.25". If only it was 15 or 20 lbs lighter. I haven’t paddled the Sea Lion in almost two months, I think it’s time to get it out again and evaluate whether the pleasure of paddling it is worth the pain of carrying and lifting it.
My biggest complaint with the lower volume / small paddler boats that I’ve sat in is the lack of foot room for even smallish men’s feet (8.5) unless in very low profile paddling socks or booties. Not an issue for women’s size 5’s.
Some day I’ll have a sporty kayak in the 14’ to 16’ range that’s 22" or narrower and weighs 35 lbs or less and I’ll get it for under $2000. Until then, I’ll make due with what I’ve got.
I’d like to try the new Pilgrim on for fit sometime. The Avocet, Capella 160 and Chatham 16 all fit fairly well and were fun to test paddle, but they all weighed 55 lbs or more.
It’s a matter of how far a given weight will sink a hull. Too much hull and a given weight won’t sink it enough to make it work as designed. Too little, and the decks are awash in turning etc. Design Displacement is the term.
Light paddler in too much boat = hocky puck in thee wind etc.
Heavy paddler in too little a boat = lifeless combo with little maneuverability…and wet.
sporty, 40 pounds or less "Some day I’ll have a sporty kayak in the 14’ to 16’ range that’s 22" or narrower and weighs 35 lbs or less and I’ll get it for under $2000. Until then, I’ll make due with what I’ve got."
Right now you can order a custom made greenland style kayak for $1800. It will meet all your criteria. If you build it yourself it will cost much less.
Getting the waterline If a 200 pound paddler is able to get into an Avocet LV, which has a target paddler weight of around 140 pounds, the seam of the boat might be under water or at least the decks will be wet, a lot, from minor boat chop. It will be pushing a lot of water (literally) as it moves forward, impeding glide.
That same 200 pound paddler in an NDK (or NDSK now) Explorer will sink the boat less, so that the word “Explorer” that is below the seam line can mostly be read. It won’t be pushing as much water.
As Salty explains, hitting above or below the optimal water line on a boat can really affect how well it handles. The Explorer in the examples above will handle much better.
Take a look at how canoes are described. Some manufacturers, I think Bell is one of them, will list a weight for each model that is what is needed to sink the hull about 2 inches. You’ll see a significant variation in the weight required to do that between the various models.
Design Displacement If one looks at the statisitcs in Sea Kayaker Magazine reviews there is a row that is “Pounds to immerse one inch.”
A clear comparison would be the Valley Nordkapp LV and the Seaward Tyee.
The Nordlow tested weighed 60.25 pounds. The Tyee 54.75 pounds. With a 250 pound load it takes 79.85 pounds to sink the Nordlow an inch wheras it takes 93.88 pounds to immerse an inch of the Tyee.
In common parlance the Nordlow would be said to be a lower volume boat than the Tyee.
Wetted surface may be a good indicator of working volume of the hull.
Target design dispalcement… … is where I usually like to start if new from keelson up design. Then other hull parameters based on uses, speed ranges, etc = (length/lwl,bean, bwl, volume distributions, tweaking various ratios/coefficients, rudder-skeg-nothing, etc…), keeping an eye on max load and stability characteristics. Then deck heights and layouts based on intended use as well (storage space/wind profiles, hatch configuration, lines and straps, etc…*
Total volume just ends up where it ends up based on all the rest. So yeah, I think that total volume’s a sort of odd measure to use for marketing (but then so is paddle length without regard to blade length and area).
Recommended paddler weight ranges are also problematic. Often just throwing the customer net as widely as possible without any reference to what displacement is optimal within that.
I like to be able to evaluate kayaks on all those parameters (just as a mental exercise, since I don’t get unlimited free demos!). Usually have to guess a lot as few release all the design hydrostatics, station and buttock views, etc. needed to really compare to things you already know - and that still only gets you so far.
On water comparisons are more fun and telling anyway.
Blah, blah, etc…
In other words, see Salty’s and others’ comments on tech jargon getting counter productive for mass market in the chines thread.
via mix of software and wetware - I like the computer [visualization, control, refinement and verification] but not hard to make a decent kayak without all that and I trust the eye more ("right"ness, overall form feel/aesthetics, and good old fashioned gut check). What looks right on screen may not look/preform right in reality, while what looks/work right in use generally is pretty good in the software too.