Rudder
I learned this the first way (from AKT).
The hand on the shoulder form might not be preferred because it seems to twist the wrist of the upper hand in an uncomfortable (carpel tunnel syndrome) way.
The “hot tea” thing is an anti-hypothermia thing.
Some years back
– Last Updated: Jul-29-07 4:13 PM EST –
when I was an EMT I seem to recall caffeine not being what you want to give a hypothermia victim... What happens if you show up with cider, or hot jello? Jeez I did some rescue work in the Alaska range on Denali and never gave anyone tea... was I negligent??
Look, anyone who is chilled will benefit from any hot liguid, provided it aint poison! Someone with advanced hypothermia will choke. Bottom Line: If they can swallow = any warm fluid - If they cannot = doesn't matter. This comes from my Doctor who did ER work in Alaska. They got a few fisherman in and warm the organs slowly with saline flush etc.
Technically (hair splitting) caffeinated drinks would be less desireable, but it's hair splitting.
I carry vast amounts of beer, and the only issue is the empties sloshing around in the cockpit when rolling etc.
Ever been on a trip with Jenn?
Outstanding leader, instructor, guide, paddler. As good as any I’ve seen in the business.
hot drink or ability to make one
tea, coffee, cider, hot chocolate, hot water, etc is suitable for the assessment. Even, water, stove, fuel, and mug (metal) or acceptable.
It is equally stressed as a moral booster and hypothermia preventative rather than a hypothermia cure. The shelter, extra layers, etc are for mild hypothermia cure. The radio and/or cell phone are for severe hypothermia.
Hypothermia and tea questions
1. Would a the liquid volume in small thermos of tea - at hot but drinkable temperature - contain enough thermal energy to really do much to significantly rewarm the body mass of an adult?
2. Would the blood rushing to the stomach in reaction to the consumption of a hot liquid be beneficial to the mental or muscular performance of someone who was mildly hypothermic?
3. Is this really something you’d want to be doing on-water to someone with mild hypothermia?
Never sounded right to me - other than as a mood enhancer. A lot like the folks who carry a flask of their preferred spirits to keep them “warm”…
4. Is there a Scottish variation that allows paddlers the option of carrying a good single malt instead?
5. Wouldn’t it be more effective for short term thermal increase to just have everyone else in the group piss into the guy’s drysuit? How’s that safety saying go…“If less than three, not enough pee” ?
Now where did I put that BCU handbook…
good points
1. have you ever been chilled an then had a few cup full of a hot drink? It might not make much of a difference to you but it does help warm me up. Everyone is different though. If drinking a small amount of hot liquid did not make people feel warmer then why do we drink hot liquids more in winter?
2. There is probably not enough blood moving to the stomach in reaction to that small volume of liquid to impair some one. Also, it really isn’t to treat hypothermia, rather to warm people who are simply chilled.
3. More than likely not something you would do on the water with anyone, hypothermia or not. You would probably land and then use the hot drink in combination with a shelter and some layers to help them rewarm.
4. I think carrying a good single malt in addition to a hot drink is completely acceptable. Just remember that ‘drinking and boating’ is illegal.
5. It might help in the very short term. Unless the thermal layers under the dry suit could quickly absorb the pee heat it wouldn’t be that effective. The evaporative cooling of the pee drying would counter act any temporary heat gain. But if you could harpoon a whale or dolphin, slit it open, and stuff the hypothermia victim inside it might help. Han Solo did something similar to save Luke, just remember to keep your lightsaber handy.
“dislocate” - with style!
Does BCU give out merit badges for injuries sustained in the name of maintainng good form?
taking things too seriously
back in the day we had an Company Commander who never really got stressed out. I finally asked him and this was his response…
As long as no one dies everything will be alright. When people start dying we need clear thought, not a bunch of stressed out people in a cluster f%&#.
So if you can’t laugh at yourself you fail and if you take things to seriously you fail. Unfortunately I think a few P.netters will have difficulty with our new assessment scheme.
difficulty with assessment scheme
"So if you can’t laugh at yourself you fail and if you take things to seriously you fail. Unfortunately I think a few P.netters will have difficulty with our new assessment scheme."
Hmm… What about those of us who can laugh at ourselves because we don’t take ourselves seriously enough to be interested BCU assessments?
You might want to re-think your target market. The “take things too serious types” seem like they’d be your bread and butter… You know, the ones who ask what KIND of tea to bring and in what size/type/brand of thermos…
All in fun - just fueling the fire as it’s been quite a while since we’ve had one of these BCU fests… Good organization -good for a laugh too.
different scheme
– Last Updated: Jul-29-07 6:51 PM EST –
in this sub-thread we have been talking about creating an entirely new scheme. I quickly named it the FPA (Fun Paddlers Association).
"You might want to re-think your target market. The "take things too serious types" seem like they'd be your bread and butter... You know, the ones who ask what KIND of tea to bring and in what size/type/brand of thermos..."
With the above mentioned group we (the assessors) would be laughing at them for taking things to seriously, and that would be just plain mean. Teaching someone to laugh at themselves seems like a lot of work so we don't want those types.
Instead of training we would just have Laugh Days where we get together act stupid (in a safe way) to entertain ourselves. The assessments would be based on how much you could laugh at yourself and how many people you could get to laugh with you. hmm... maybe I should get Kelly Blades involved with this scheme.
And why don't we have an ACA slam fest?
I think ACA is probably…
… self-slamming enough, and so less fun as a target.
After both fine organizations get done dry humping each other in a questionable effort to produce a hybrid standard - folks can pick on whatever iced tea toting bastard child emerges…
As for counter-schemes, I’ve looked at “Team Zero” as an option, but even that’s too organized for me.
water
Ok, almost embarrassed to put in my 2 cents
on the BCU wanting the participants to carry hot
tea. The BCU can choose to have this as one of the
things they want you to do and if you do not have
the hot tea, or a way to make it, it is entirely
their prerogative to put a little black mark against
you.
However, for those on the water please realize the hot
tea has nothing to do with staving off hypo. Sorry, I
know it is the BCU and for some that means it must
be right and true. Not the case. For people that are cold
and heading for hypo or for those that are hypo (early stage)
what is needed is fluids. Out of the water bottle or
out of the thermos makes no difference. Except you might
need to add water to the tea to cool it down. If one is cold or
hypo there is a tremendous amount of fluids and energy burned.
As a rule of thumb you might just want to assume that
someone that is very cold or hypo is dehydrated (until
proven otherwise).
It is important the fluids be replaced. If I am approaching
hypo and you have water in a bottle please do not put
that water on the stove to heat it up. Just give me the water.
I will have tea latter thank you.
I guess the hot liquid could be a physiological and or
emotional pick me up. However, if I was in trouble, as
concerns the cold, my spirits would be lifted much more
by someone taking steps that really mattered. Wind
break, shelter, helping me out of my wet things into
warm dry things and getting me insulated. Keep pushing
the water and get something going that has some calories
in it. If someone is really in trouble, or approaching trouble,
the hot tea has more value in its ability to hydrate than
to warm.
So, my 2 cents–BCU wants tea fine and dandy. Just
do not confuse this with what to do in a real situation.
Slight correction
Jen IS a 5* and a level 4* coach. She was trying to become the first person in North America to become a level 5* coach.
I thought it was either an American/Brit thing when they failed her or, or they won’t pass anyone on their first try for that level. She disagreed with me, but the one thing I do know is that Jen is definitely capable of multi-tasking.
Personally, I believe in taking the star level classes, but I don’t take the assesments I do perfectly well judging my own skill level and don’t need an outside agency to tell me what I can or can’t paddle.
According to Jen, most of the guys I paddle with probably have 4* skills. Since we are not professionally guiding, most of us feel there’s really no need for us to take the assesments.
Coaching L5
She aleady is a 4* coach and level 5 paddler. In fact, she was the 2nd woman in the US to get the 5*.
As Salty said, they don’t come any better than Jenn.
Hot Drink, and “local” rules
When I took my BCU proficiency with Derek Hutchinson and Linda Legg (years ago), we were required to bring a hot drink even though we were in West Palm Beach Florida, the air temperatures were in the eighties and the water temps were not much cooler. A cooler of Gatorade would have been a much better choice. No hot drink and you would have been “failed”.
Having said that, I enjoyed paddling with Derek and Linda, and the proficiency test was a fun day.
The problem with “rules” is they tend to be biased, based on where an organization is located – and not all advice is well suited for Greenland, Anglesey, the PNW or the NE USA. For example, I often ignore the “cotton kills” rule and intentially wear wet cotton in the summer to prevent overheating under the blazing Florida sun. Of course, I wouldn’t do this in Anglesey.
Rules are flawed (although often useful), and perhaps their main value is to keep kayakers alive long enough until experience, sound judgement and applied common-sense can take over.
Greg Stamer
My impression
My impression is that there is a dynamic in the understanding of effective strokes and many coaches/instructors/plain-old-paddlers are starting to move both the bow and stern rudders closer to the cockpit in most situations. With a more vertical paddle the opening of the blade is more of a twisting of the shaft and less of a moving the blade out from the boat. Nigel Fosters video 3 shows both. Also there was an article on the stern rudder in Sea Kayaker that discussed this a while back.
About the tea thing. I asked an EMT friend about this after he was on a C-1 vertebra fracture on the White Salmon River. His thought was that once the patient was stabilized her comfort(?) became important and hot drinks were appropriate for that. The heat doesn’t help with the hypothermia but sugar can (and what Brit doesn’t put sugar in their tea?).
I’ve done BCU and ACA training and think there is plenty of dogmatism to go around. But most of it is based on good skills and experience by the instructors. I’m concerned that there will be an escalation so each group can show they are more rigorous, rather than trying to make the most effective learning path for the students.
Probably the best bet is to go into it with the attitude that you want to learn whatever you can from whoever is teaching. If the stars aren’t important to you, there may still be some value in doing an assessment to see what you can learn from it and in that case you shouldn’t care if you don’t pass, right? Or maybe just do the training. Whatever works for you.
the importance of tea
it seems people are stuck on the tea issue. All day I have been wondering why it is so important. Then I remember the Boston Tea Party. We always have liked rebelling against the Brits and their rules for tea. I guess we always will.
have thermos good–no thermos bad
Well, not exactly. It has nothing to do with tea. It has to do with hot liquid. I do not really care if the BCU says you have to have or be able to make something hot. It is their system so they can make the rules. Any rules they want. If you choose not to follow a rule expect a little black mark. I one time had a criticism for a coach 5 that I voiced in front of others. I know —dumb, dumb, dumb. I should not have done it. I must admit I was taken a back by how horrified the others were that a coach 5 would be criticized by a mere paddler, american at that.
Anyway, it is my experience that when things start to go wrong it is difficult, most times very difficult, to stop the downward progression of events. Trying to make correct choices in a timely manner so a potentially bad situation can be turned around is harder than most people realize. People that do not think so have never been in this situation, are incredibly at ease in tense situations or have no firm grasp of what is really happening around them.
On one training I realized it was not the hot tea that was important. It was the thermos. They saw the thermos. Thermos equaled good and no thermos would equal bad. I had a thermos so I was good. I had liquid in the thermos so it was ok with me.
But as before please do not take the time, unless it is a BCU coach, to heat up the liquid you are going to give someone in a real situation because you have just taken a good action-giving liquid-than make a poor decision–take the time to heat it up–all the while the situation might be getting worse.
Terminology
Not to be too pedantic, but there is no such thing as a 4* coach, or a level 5 paddler. Star’s are for personal achievement, and level’s are for coaching. So Jen would be properly referred to as a BCU 5* and a level 4 coach.
Hey Salty,
Will the Brits let you carry warm beer instead of tea?