L5 Coaches in North America
"She was trying to become the first person in North America to become a level 5* coach."
As far as I know there are two L5 Sea BCU coaches who reside in North America - Nigel Foster and Steve Maynard, though both Brit born and reared.
There are a number of excellent American born L4s. The lack of American born L5s does lead to speculation…
My lightsabre is not BCU approved kit!
but it’s funny!
I love making fun of the tea thing. It really is pretty silly and it annoys my anglophile friends.
The irony of all of this is that in my experience, the BCU coaches who are more dogmatic tend to be US BCU coaches. The Brits that I’ve worked with have all been much more relaxed and flexible.
Of course discussions like this leave a bad taste in my mouth about the BCU. To me there’s nothing worse than an indoctrinated BCU paddler blindly regurgitating technique dogma that they picked up from some fifteen star paddler. …well, a brainwashed ACA paddler cluelessly obsessing over the C-to-C roll is pretty bad too.
uh…jay?
here in the US, the bcu is administered through Bill Lozano in NY - he’s the head of BCUNA…through him there are 3 regional coaching officers - steve maynard for the east coast, leon somme for the west and kelly blades somewhere in the middle.
if there was a concern over anything, they’d be the fella’s to speak with…
and for that matter, Nigel Dennis isn’t the guy to address issues with in the UK - for coachy stuff, you’d probably start with the BCU office in Nottingham, England.
Hot stuff - hypothermia etc.
– Last Updated: Jul-30-07 7:53 AM EST –
In quite mild cases of hypothermia - like you have to have obsessed about it a bit to even recognize that's what is starting - I have been in situations where a bit of hot anything including coffee helped restore a sense and state of well-being. As things progress to being more serous, yes caffeine becomes a potential issue and some recommend against coffee at that point because of how fast it delivers same to the system. I seem to recall that the caffeine in tea actually comes in a bit differently than that in coffee but don't quote me on that. They have great electrolyte stuff in all kinds of forms these days anyway - chews, jellybeans, fizzy drink tablets and goo.
Also, it tends to be forgotten that the cardinal rule with hypothermia is to stay ahead of it. The hot tea I carried last week wasn't about using it to stem off hypothermia, but to have it for the lunch break when I was likely to pull down the upper half of the drysuit while getting some overall food and water into me on what ended as a misty/slightly rainy day. (great paddle though)
As to taking things too seriously, I am regularly struck by how the only way these BCU diatribes seem to get going is by someone who says they don't take it seriously getting into a wad about it. Those of us who have participated in the BCU system don't go out and start these fights - heck this one was just a question about what bow rudder (from someone who already got their 4 star anyway). I have encountered people who came back spitting from various slights or disagreements with ACA trainings in person, but never seen that kind of response on p.net. For whatever reason, the BCU gets a ridiculously strong response compared to people failing ACA stuff, which I presume happens since they have instituted an assessment type situation more recently themselves.
Among those who go out for assessments and fail, there are always going to be some that will seem to fellow paddlers should have been a pass. And there can be diff's between assessors - for example I know of one assessor who has a reputation of being particularly tough on the 3 star assessment, and I have heard of similar encounters from those who have gone for an ACA rating.
news flash…
i offer the syllabus for 5 star sea award - leadership on the water in open conditions, the highest personal skills award in the BCU…pretty broad, encompassing stuff…please enlighten me and illustrate where it specifies the need for tea, hot or otherwise.
http://www.bcuna.com/PDF-Files/5-Star-Sea.pdf
there is a requirement that you be able to deal with a chilled or hypothermic paddler or pretty much any incident on the water…the word “tea” does not appear.
as far as someone failing a suss because they couldn’t get their group to “stay in line”…perhaps WHERE that person asked the group to “stay in line” was too challenging for the group? in which case the issue could be construed as you’ve presented or more factually, because the person didn’t figure out that the conditions were too challenging to maintain control of the group.
the hot drink (not always tea)
is part of the 4* kit. In the 4* syllabus it is #6 under the Candidate’s Kayak and Equipment. The assumption is that the ‘kit’ builds upon the previous star’s kit. Therefor the 5* kit would be the 4* kit plus other gear.
The 5* syllabus states “It is reasonable for people to make personal choices as regards equipment but they should be prepared to justify those decisions.”
Someone who has been through the BCU system knows the importance that is placed on a hot drink (not necessarily tea). Assuming someone failed the 5* for not having a hot drink (not necessarily tea) they would either missed the importance placed on it during the 2*, 3*, and 4* assessments; or, the could not justify their decision to not bring one. A thermos doesn’t take up that much room so you play it safe and bring one.
And I agree about the group handling statement.
Hey Matt, I think I’m the paddler!
Michael here. I was on my assessment with Nigel, you and one other peddler. I was the one who did not pass, but it wasn’t because of my bow rudder. There was some discussion about the bow rudder, with me using the arm across the chest method that I have been shown by all East coast coaches since my 2-star training. I had no problem demonstrating the hand across the head variation. I still prefer the arm lower, since I find it gives me a stronger turn and a more stable position. Nigel’s concern was that it would be too easy to get the arm tangled around the neck. I just don’t find that to be an issue.
The reason I failed was my High Recovery/High Brace wasn’t there. What can I say? It was the end of the day. I was tired, and my high recovery was weak to start with. I just don’t find it to be a real world stroke, so I haven’t practiced it as much as I should. I’ve never needed it on flat water, and in waves, I’m falling into a wave that is head high.
None of this is meant as an excuse or an argument. I have no problem with Nigel’s decision. I said at the beginning of the assessment that I was going to treat it like a training day, and I learned a lot. I’m working on the skill, and will pass my assessment before summer is over.
On a related note? Are you going to the Georgia Symposium? I’m going to take the 5-star training, and it would be great to paddle with you again.
SPF rating
is it:
SAFE-PRODUCTIVE-FUN ???
bow rudder- a ruddering stroke forward of the cockpit.
is the blade buried?
Is the body rotated?
is the boat on edge?
is the boat TURNING?
steve
why
was the paddler turning right and ‘looking’ left?
nope. not a great BR
steve
Question for Bowler1
How was the paddler who failed? Was he good enough to qualify for the rating in your estimation?
If a paddler just is not good enough for a standard, why can’t they just say that like a normal person rather than play games?
Exactly
Thanks Steve…well said.
Sounds like…
– Last Updated: Jul-30-07 12:06 PM EST –
the above posts reply to at least two different events of someone failing an assessment.
One is a coach assessment, at a very high and demanding level, who didn't manage a group situation to the desired standard. I suspect that the message was clearly enough stated in the original training, but has lost a great deal of its content in being filtered back through the p.net BCU rant. It is also possible that there are hoops for someone trying to enter the rarified level of a BCU L5 coach with which many/most here would disagree.
The second, if it was the Michael above, was due to a problem with what is considered by many to be a fairly basic recovery move. For what it's worth, that's not the first time I've heard of someone having trouble passing due to their high brace recovery, and if I am guessing correctly in both cases it showed up when the high brace had to be executed in less than maximal conditions for a four star. If the lower body recovery doesn't kick in at the right time, something that can easily happen when someone is really tired or has tended to treat a high brace as a shallow roll, the paddler will fall over enough that it can be a pretty close call whether they braced or rolled up.
It's one of those funny things - in conditions this is less likely to be a point of dispute because, as said above, you'll tend to hit a wall of water higher or things will be confused enough that a brace will be pretty deep anyway.
I personally think that a deep brace is still a brace, not a pseudo-roll, but I have needed and executed exactly the high brace I think these coaches want in conditions when I was playing in rock ledges. And again there is the matter of being there - if a coach is seeing an underlying issue with the high brace due to someone really not kicking in any lower body control until they hit their rolling response, it may be that this shows up in other aspects of their paddling but the high brace is the most effective place to make the correction.
Thermos
should be a vacuum flask.
Tea should be Typhoo. If unavailable, substitute Earl Grey.
Interviews and other tests
The comments about hot tea are hilarious.
If you want to do well in a job interview, you dress up even though the place might have no dress code and/or you normally wear jeans and t-shirt. It’s just part of the obstacle course to getting that job.
It’s not like you have to carry hot drinks every time you paddle.
ok this is silly
– Last Updated: Jul-30-07 12:40 PM EST –
without seeing everything else the guy did right or wrong in his assessment it's silly to sit here and guess that nigel flunked him for a bow rudder. I am sure there were was more than a bow rudder.
Second- a few different ways to do everything. Nigel I am sure knows this too. But there are basic components that have to be there, and this is what the aca and the bcu teach. Right or wrong. Why give an award to someone who didn't have all the basics. Failure is life's greatest teacher. Some people shrink like lilies in the sun, others shine like diamonds.
Maybe if I saw a video of your bow rudder bowler I could critique. But even then it's only my opinion!
Keith
So BCU assessment is like…
… playing dress-up?
I get the play along thing - but sad that’s even part of it.
See Kapp-n-Crunch’s post… NM
Innuendo, rumours, myths, Kool Aid and
– Last Updated: Jul-30-07 12:56 PM EST –
religion. I was not there, but I'm pretty sure the guy who did not pass his assessment did not do so for other reasons. At the bottom of the thread, indeed the paddler comes on line and states the real reason. It illustrates the "I heard the BCU is dogmatic" topics are fun but not necessarily prescient debates. The BCU is not dogmatic, but some of the coaches can be on occasion. Who was it that once said "The closer one is to being granted authority, the more slavish he is to its demands"? Try to avoid the young ones, if you fear that.
The good news about the BCU is that they are bigger, smarter and more resourceful than in the past. There are more and better people working for them. Many of whom argue over technique. One of the best campfires I've ever had was when an ACA guy debated with several UK and US BCU coaches on where to put the paddler in the water on a rescue. Do you put them on your bow or on the stern by the meat grinding rudder? There was a lot of whiskey and some colorful comments that night.
If you are interested in feedback on paddling performance the BCU is a good place to go. I enjoy the fact that people from the UK or Europe, who have completely different mindsets than my own can offer me some feedback or a glass of Kool Aid on a hot day. But don't get all hung up and start star hunting as a goal in and of itself. That would be binge Kool Aid drinking and you could gain weight.
If I were to look into the pond and see my own reflection and called it good is that really so? What of the other billions of planet users, what do they think of my looks? Personal or peer performance assessments are not usually as good as trained observer assessments, but I could be wrong. I've seen some really good paddlers that just went out and learned to paddle from friends and maybe some clinics, books, magazine articles, etcetera. I never could figure out how to keep the books and mags dry so I gave them up and just payed a coach to offer some advice. Worked ok for me. But I didn't let others decide the experience for me, I went out to see what the deal was and found out it was pretty good and learned a lot of cool stuff from really cool people.
The point is to have fun, maybe learn a bit so you don't end up a casualty and try to figure out what really went down that day by what was not said, rumoured, mythologized or innuendo'd. And always question the source: any authority that offers Kool Aid, fake a sip but spit it out when they aren't looking. If you don't like tea, don't bring it, but if you are bothering to pay someone to offer advice and you know they like tea, bring it, it's for them, not you.
The real Dogmaticus
PS: the guy that gave me my 3* prefered a slightly different version taught by his colleagues in the same company. But his name was not Dogmaticus, so he didn't make an issue out of it, he wanted to know if I was not slavish to the demands of one stroke and I could adjust for other realities.
exactly
my point. it just says that you need to deal with a situation and there the word “tea” is not mentioned.
so why all the talk about something so silly makes me suspect the rest of the arguments.
silly.