Wow…
Didn’t expect this much commentary on this post…first let me say that I know the way that I prefer the bow rudder and will use that technique. I prefer the method with the vertical shaft. I can do all three methods, but will stick with the one that I prefer most. I like the vertical shaft becuase I feel it puts less stress on my body, turns the boat effectively, allows you to edge deeply, you can make a precision turn easily by controlling how much you open up the blade, and you can really turn effectively in high winds this way and really crank the boat around.
My only reason for asking was because I wanted to know what the BCU considered right for the purpose of their evaluations in the event that I take future evaluations. If they prefer one of the other methods then I will do it that way for the day of the assessment and then go back to the way that I prefer. I haven’t drunk all the Kool Aid just yet! Still have a little ability to think for myself.
Michael…Great to hear from you! Yes, you are the paddler I am talking about. Small world!
I was not sure exactly what the issue was for sure as to why you had not passed. In fact I thought you had passed at first until I hear Nigel talking to you afterwards about Shawna and Leon checking out your strokes. I was not sure exactly what the reason was but thought that it was due to the bow rudder. Glad to hear that it wasn’t as that would have been somewhat unfair and inconsistent.
By the way in my opinion, the high brace recover on flat water…done with the head in the water as Nigel wanted us to do, in my opinion is a somewhat pointless maneuver. If you are that far over you are better off just tucking and setting up for a roll. Less chance of injuring the shoulder, and less potential exposure of your face to rocks, etc if in shallow water. The high brace when done in waves is a different story though but you can’t simulate that on flat water.
Not sure what I am doing this fall for my next trip. I am considering the Symposium at Tybee, the Rough Water Sypmosium in RI, or the Downeast Symposium in ME. I can only do one though so we’ll see. Right now I am leaning toward the Rough Water Symposium. I will probably go back to the NC symposium next year so hope to see you there if I don’t see you at Tybee. Hope your trip to WA was great. I am sure it was.
Matt
Yeah, it’s sorta like
making fun of the Special Olympics.. NOT politically correct! This stuff is for geriatrics...does an AARP card or Good Sam Club membership get a discount on BCU events?
The kids who are gonna change this stoggie sport could give a shit about the BCU, ACA, whatever...more power to them!!
Watched Justine's vid not long ago (I like her!) with my ex-Olympic coach bud and he lost it with laughter at the sea kayak ender that all the geeks were orgasming over...His direct quote "That happens 5000 times a day on the rivers and noone even cares anymore".
Head in water
This seems to be a moving thing between coaches, but just as a comment I find the head in the water high brace is less strain than a roll because I come up with less of the boat over. No lifting - at that point the boat is still sideways so it is more like coming up from a scull than a roll. But it seems that the overall issue is less a given position. Seems to be more about the ability to have a lot of control over your position sideways rather than just flat out collapsing into the water at a certain point.
4 star is about owning the skills
Out here in the northwest most bcu students find passing the 3 star much more difficult than the 4. In your 3 star you must demonstrate the proper technique of the main strokes in each quadrant. In the 4 star you must demonstrate that you have internalized and own the skills and to use the appropriate stroke in the appropriate environment. They want to see you instinctivly link the strokes, rotation, and proper edge to move the kayak where you want it to go.
The paddler who failed his 4 star by not showing confidence in a high brace (3 star requirment) was not ready for the assesment. If he failed the high brace because he was still shy about putting his kayak up edge, then he really had no place being in a 4 star assessment. That being said, the bcu coaches I know go out of their way to encourage you and identifly what you need to work on to pass the next time. Nobody likes to fail. But we do learn more from those experiences in the end.
encourage you and identify what you need
Assessment is part of the spiral of learning that the BCU encourages as an ongoing process. The steps are training, practice, assessment as a continual spiral. There is good reason it is termed ‘assessment’ not ‘test’.
If one wants to know what the BCU standards and guidelines are one could check the information provided by the BCU such as that on www.bcuna.com
There are also a number of well experienced and qualified BCU coaches who are accessible online. Look at the listing of coaches on the BCU site and email questions.
The East Coast RCO is Steve Maynard. He is also one of two L5 Sea coaches in North America. Mark Schoon (Carpe Diem), John Carmody (Sea Cliff Kayakers), and Tom Bergh (MIKCo) are L4 coaches who are articulate and responsive.
Of course some folks would rather bitch, moan, and mislead here…
I didn’t appreaciate that comment.
"The paddler who failed his 4 star by not showing confidence in a high brace (3 star requirement) was not ready for the assessment."
I had no problem putting the boat on edge, no problem committing to the brace, but my timing was off. I then had no problem rolling up from my capsize. It was not a confidence issue. I was simply worn out from 4 days of training, and I had a hernia as well.
If you were not at the assessment, how in the world can you assess my readiness for 4 Star Assessment. If you have the BCU clairvoyant award, let me know and I'll seek your approval before I schedule my next session.
I acknowledged in my earlier post that I had not practiced a high brace in flat conditions and stated that I'll correct that, but blanket decrees on the skills of a peddler are unwarranted.
"If he failed the high brace because he was still shy about putting his kayak up edge, then he really had no place being in a 4 star assessment."
Ironically, I was the only peddler at the assessment who held a 3 star award. I had no difficulty with the 4 star assessment, but was asked to demonstrate my 3 star skills alongside the 2 candidates who did not have a 3 star award.
I have no problem with Nigel's decision or the BCU, but please leave the assessment to the coach who is there at the assessment.
Thanks,
Michael
Some Refuse to teach or use high brace
I understand, having been told by a well known coach that others often refer to, that some highly respected paddlers/coaches who are high on the BCU scale of things refuse to teach or use the high brace as they consider it potentially dangerous and the low brace works well in the circumstances usually said to require a high brace. I personally find practicing the high brace on flat water an absurdly abstract exercise that places a great deal of stress on paddle and paddler.
Agreed
"I personally find practicing the high brace on flat water an absurdly abstract exercise that places a great deal of stress on paddle and paddler."
I would agree with this comment. In my unqualified opinion I believe the high brace is most useful for bracing into a wave that is to big to use the low brace with. You can’t replicate this on flat water.
If given the choice between capsizing and using a high brace with the body already committed to the water…I would much rather tuck and roll. I have hurt my shoulder in the past doing the high brace fully committed and in doing the C to C roll (which is why I now use a modified sweep).
I also wanted to say that Michael’s comment above about being tired from paddling all day is quite legitimate. We took the assessment at the end of 4 days of solid paddling and the portion of the assessment in which we had to demonstrate the 3 star strokes was at the very end of the day…after paddling in rough water for about 7 hours. I was tired too. I personally did not think that was the appropriate time to look at strokes. I had expected them to look at them up front.
matt
Hey capt crunch
You're right. I was not their. But niether was anyone else in this post except one person. I could only comment on what you directly posted.
"The reason I failed was my High Recovery/High Brace wasn't there. What can I say? It was the end of the day. I was tired, and ""my high recovery was weak to start with."" I just don't find it to be a real world stroke, so I haven’t practiced it as much as I should. I've never needed it on flat water, and in waves, I'm falling into a wave that is head high."
I did not mean to insult you. Being able to perform a high brace on flat water is a 3 star skill. Were you taking a 4 star assesment? What were 2 stars doing there? I'm just trying to understand the circumstances of why you did not pass the assessment. As I said before, we learn alot more from our mistakes. It sound like you did not take it personally as some in this post seem to have. The place I see the greatest risk of injury with the high brace is when you use it while cruising at a decent speed. The chance of the kayaks momentum pulling your blade arm behind your shoulder are greatest in that situation. Were you stationary when asked to perform the brace. I know people who have refused to perform it while moving quickly.
I'm sure most realize a high brace is just the last part of a roll. I don't really agree that once your head is in the water you tuck and roll up unless you fall over so quickly you just use that momentum to carry you to a full roll. But that would take switching your setup from the failed brace to the other side to roll.
Mixed group
Just a quick comment on the group - I wasn't there but can comment on how things have been over this side of the continent.
There had been an increasing tendency for paddlers to jump right to the 4 star assesment in the east at least. Part of this trend was due to there not being a deep bench of coaches around here against the number of paddlers that started entering the queue. The BCU leadership here has been pushing a couple of things in the last year to try and remedy this - one is to offer more lower level coach trainings and assessments and the other is to start getting fussier about making sure that paddlers don't skip the 2 and 3 star work.
This may not have been as much of a problem out west as in the east.
It is rarer now, but paddlers still can at times jump into a 4 star. The second piece is that, at least by reputation, the coaches from the UK tend to be a little less of sticklers than the ones from the US. The result is that paddlers without the ideal prior trainings can end up in a 4 star assessments.
BTW, my husband just pulled the current requirements for even taking 4 star training or assessment in the UK, apparently on their way to the US tho' with some mitigation for 2008. They are enacting a set of pre-req's including a first aid/CPR course, records of 12 trips of four hours each minimum including a leadership role in half, one camping, from different locations and the Canoe Safety test. I sincerely wish I felt ready to pass a 4 star before this year's end after looking at them. As it happens, there is no reason why I couldn't meet them all in 2008 based on our past work and the course I planned to take this winter anyway, but it is a huge change from the prior four star and will involve a lot more submitting and checking of records. The current show and go setup is a lot less bother.
Beer
"I carry vast amounts of beer, and the only issue is the empties sloshing around in the cockpit when rolling etc."
If it’s English beer, they’d probably pass you. (As far as I can tell, many, if not most, of the BCU coaches seem to be somewhat familiar with beer).
Silly rules
The hot drink rule might be silly in certain situations.
Still, if you know it’s a requirement for something that you’ve worked hard to achieve (getting the rating), is it that much extra effort to satisfy it? Everybody knows about the requirement (so, it should not be a surprise).
He looks ahead
The paddler in the video looks ahead (proably, more to the right) for most of the turn. He looks left (at the camera) at the end of the turn.
It's an OK demonstration but it's hard to learn technique from.
Silly Rules
I passed but that is not the point. The point of instruction for me is not to regurgitate some info, pass a test and get a ribbon, but to become skilled as a sea kayaker. For that to happen, at some point you need to learn to think on your own and develop your own judgement. You can’t develop that if you are always asked to blindly and unthinkingly do whatever you are asked, no matter how silly. If you aren’t prepared to question your instructor about a requirement of hot tea in summer in Florida, then when are you expected to learn to speak up? If your instructor cannot answer a question, then follow up on your own afterwards.
IMO, it’s healthy to politely challenge any system and any instructor, as long as you are not disruptive or rude. Going along with “group think” in kayaking is a good way to get killed. It can be difficult to speak up in a group when everyone agrees on plan “A” and you feel that it’s a mistake, especially if you feel that the others are more experienced. Why not start encouraging free-thinking behavior as early as possible in our kayaking instruction?
That said, I view all instruction as useful but you have to be willing to keep what’s good and throw-out the bad (and silly).
Greg Stamer
For Example
Would it not be a reasonable response by the examiner to someone not having a thermos of warm drink to ask why not and question the applicant on when and where they would or would not carry a thermos of warm drink and why? Seems that would be a better test of knowledge and judgment than a check off list. Reminds me of the hunter who knew it was important to have a compass in case they got lost. Of course when they got lost they realized the compass was of little use by itself even assuming they knew how to use it. Still, as others have said, if you want a BCU award, then you need to play by their rules. After all, its their award to dole out in any manner they choose.
Actually not required
The 4* Syllabus only says the equipment for providing a hot drink such as a thermos SHOULD be carried. I believe the authors of the syllabus had a good command of the language and used it precisely. It does not say equipment for providing a hot drink MUST be provided for inspection nor that it MUST be carried.
Very Much so Ed
"I believe the authors of the syllabus had a good command of the language and used it precisely"
Steve Maynard (East Coast RCO) regularly notes that the language of BCU syllabi is very carefully chosen.
Thusfar my experience with BCU training and assessments is that there is a lot of dialogue. BCU coaches often respond to questions with questions. Sometimes it seems a bit Zen, but my experience is that they want thinking, skilled, informed paddlers.
It is not uncommon for long term BCU coaches to note how preferred technique has changed since they were first trained or started coaching. It is not a rigid inflexible system. The coaching and star systems are undergoing a lot of change right now.
regarding 4 star…
Just assessed for my 4 star out here in the PNW, and it seems as though the assessment you were on with Nigel was quite different than what I experienced.
I've always thought that the 4 star award (old one, as the new one is still pending for NA) was meant to assess your ability to be a competant member of a group under the direction of a "leader" aka 5 star paddler in "moderate" conditions.
It is understood that you have aquired a BASIC mastery of 3 star skills, otherwise you would not have had the 3 star award in the first place.
On my assesment there was no direct request of demonstraion of particular skills, our assessors just observed us all day long without putting any pressure on us and drew their conclusions from the activities they had us do, where we had to use our entire tool box of strokes, edging, rescues etc to get things done.
I found my 4 star assesment to be delightful, it was less stressful than my 3 star assesment, and just as much fun as the 4 star training i did last year. the best part was the exit interview, where i confirmed what i have to work on the most and where i can use a little more fine-tuning.
all depends on the assessor you have for your test i guess, but yeah, no specific stroke work requested on this one!
if anyone is heading to the Rough Water Symposium in RI, i am making the trek from BC for 5 star training, hope to meet some of you out east!
cheers
michael aka "not the other mike"
ps - if you already have your 3 skills, 4 star is pretty much a breeze if you spend any time whatsoever in minimally lumpier water, can look at a chart and figure out where you are, and can keep track of fellow group members and how they are feeling. anyone who has guided at all or instructed should have no problems passing this award.
Matt, an Idea.
Hey, you seem a cool guy who is immersed in this sport and with obtaining experience, skills, stars etc. All valid stuff, but here’s my suggestion. Hook up with a couple of excellent paddlers and go do a month long trip somewhere. BC, Alaska, Charlottes, go round Vancouver Island etc. My belief is that these experiences will do more for your development than anything you have done to date. In these waters you WILL be tested.
It seems that few people ever really do these types of trips anymore and to me, that’s what you train for. Ma Nature is the real assesor! Get round Cape Chacon on a nasty day alive and give yourself as many stars as you want! Good day, and please take my ribbing of BCU with a grain of “salt”. It’s all in fun.
Diff’s in assessment conditions
One of the things that happens which pushes the group back to flat water skills in the 4 star assessment is when the paddlers arrive but the conditions don’t. I’ve known of more than one paddler who has had to go back to the 3 star strokes in an assessment because the day dawned clear and a little too flat. (Haven’t heard of the backwards figure 8 being asked for again, thank heavens.) Also, if the group includes people who have skipped the lower level assessments, the coaches are more on point now to make sure that they at least have a gander at strokes in flat conditions.
People I know who have assessed 4 star where the conditions cooperated have had more of your experience described above in the PNW, tho’ I seem to have heard more than one account where the coach took people out for a day and exhausted the heck out of then asked for the roll in 3 ft waves, that kind of thing.