"beamy boats"

When I stated …
“boat doesn’t matter … much” I considered that there are nuances between boats. Nuance, meaning “subtle or slight degree of difference, as in meaning, feeling, or tone”, is appropriate and why I wrote “boat doesn’t matter … much” rather than “boat doesn’t matter”.

I don’t think we are disagreeing regarding a roughly appropriate sized boat (i.e. fit). But, I think we disagree about “hull profile”, “volume”, and “deck height” being significant. To me these traits are just nuances between the various boat models and don’t contribute appreciably to the effort needed to roll.

As an example (and assuming equal fit), I don’t think it would take a new student any longer (one or two more attempts, maybe?) to achieve their first roll in your Inazone versus my RPM. The extra 1, 2, or 3% force needed to right the Inazone versus the RPM is really insignificant.

All too often we psych ourselves out by over analysing situations: This is a different boat, I wonder if I can roll it; I wonder if it will be harder to roll; I wonder if that hard chine will make it difficult to finish the roll; Gee, this deck sure seems high and this boat has a lot of volume, maybe it won’t roll as easily, or maybe I won’t be able to roll it at all.

By nature, we all cast doubts on our own abilities and this often leads to failure. I believe we would have a much higher success rate if instead we thought: I can roll sea kayaks and whitewater kayaks; Okay, here we go, head down and hip snap.

This is what EJ preaches …


Wasn’t trying to be rude

– Last Updated: Feb-03-08 8:23 AM EST –

or that serious.

The issue of fit and volume was still in the above stuff - it wasn't present in your post above - so the agree/disagree thing didn't seem to work out the way that was writ.
(And I'd posit that a "huge man" would have a much better shot at actually rolling the Queen Mary than many women too.)

It is winter :wink:
And we are not spending enough time on the water.

I respect E.J. greatly. I also own and enjoy his rolling and bracing DVD. However, I think it is best to not pray at anyones church of kayaking - whether it be Brit or American - nudge, nudge, wink, wink…

I hold certain BCU certs, but belong to the ACA. It is nearly all good and everything IS contingent.

Hey - for you it was insignificant…
I haven’t tried an RPM granted, but I was panting after just three times of snapping that Inazone 232 up.


a comparison
I’ve built a Chesapeake 16 s&g kayak, it’s narrower than your ArlukIV by 1/2" and shaped like a tapered brick, it’s much more stable and doesn’t roll as easily.

I had a Necky Swallow which is about the same width but more stable than your ArlukIV, I learned to roll in it. It is harder to roll than your Arluk IV, I hand rolled it a few times.

Some Difference
At the risk of being assaulted: When John and I traded off, my Inazone for his RPM, I nearly windowshaded his RPM (having been rolling the Inazone)and it took him noticeable effort to bring up my Inazone (having been rolling the RPM). And John is a much stronger roller than me.

I won’t state an opinion as to whether the difference was significant :wink:

Bottom Line
90% of rolling is mental.

I believe this is Wetzool’s primary point, as I think it is Salty’s.

Bottom Line
If the minor differences between sea touring kayak shapes and dimensions are profound to someone’s roll, then they have a bad roll!

Dial in the physics of rolling and the mentality of applying concepts and you’ll instinctively adjust to any boat.


if you have a good roll, you should be able to roll almost anything

(not sure about the Queen Mary)

Best Wishes


beamy boats
Thanks for all the replies but I didn’t mean to start anything. I have considerable ww experience and could roll all of the boats I’ve owned but I do think some are easier but I’m old and fairly inflexible

The arluk is the only touring boat I’ve owned but I hope to have a boat with about a 22" beam eventually. I just wondered what would be the biggest difference in different width boats.

of the biggest differances you will find with wider or taller decks is that you have to watch out for banging your thumbs on the sides of the deck when you paddle. They all roll with the proper technique, But banging my thumbs when paddling hurts.

Best Wishes