The prior sit-on (without pedals) was better for paddling. I think the main issue with the Passport is the lack of anything to brace your feet on, which helps to keep your more stable and powerful while paddling. I don’t think it’s an issue with the seat being positioned differently or anything else about the kayak…it’s just tough when your legs/feet are kind of freely extended.
Yes, I have the one with the kick-up fins. The water I go in doesn’t have a ton of plants so I haven’t dealt with much, but I can say I’ve never had a problem so far.
And as to the handles, they seem fine to me. I don’t have experience with a ton of other kayaks so perhaps they are worse than others, but I’ve had zero problems with it - not something I had even thought about until this question actually.
One of the aspects of the OP’s dilemma is he does not yet really know how much he will paddle or how various boats would work for him. As with most newbies setting out to find out if paddling will really be an activity that is practical and even enjoyable for them, I (and I think others) are hesitant to suggest he commit to thousands of dollars in a new higher end boat, especially one that will require a costly rack and transport system as well. Begging the question as to whether any of the boats and gear he might become focused on will even be available for purchase this season.
I agree with everything you said about weight and annoyance of a pedal kayak but there is at least one exception regarding speed, the Hobie Revolution 16 will happily keep up with most kayaks. This is mainly due to it being 16ft and much narrower than other similar boats. They don’t make it any more so it’s a moot point but I wanted to mention it because I bought that boat specifically to go fast and it does do that.
I have a Hobie Revolution 16 with sail kit, outriggers, turbo fins etc. It’s not my primary boat, I prefer a nice greenland boat, however that said it can be a lot of fun depending on what you want out of it.
Some pros and cons:
Pros
The Revo 16 is just as fast as a good touring sea kayak, the smaller Hobies will not be.
Lots of “kit”, you can add a transducer, get water temp, have gps maps right there, a sail kit, outriggers for stability etc.
Stable, easy to get back up on without needing a roll etc. (See caveat below)
Scupper carts are awesome!
Pedal, Paddle and Sail, lots of redundancy! Peddling is a lot of fun and the reclined position makes it feel super lazy.
Built super tough, everything is well made and durable. The handles you mentioned are super solid on the Revo, as are all the hatches and fittings.
Cons
Heavy!! The Revo 16 is 80lbs unladen, that is without the seat and any gear attached to it.
Expensive! Really overpriced for what it is. The Mirage drive alone is $1000!
Will not improve your kayaking skills.
Will likely not be acceptable if joining sea kayaking groups for planned trips. Most groups have requirements on bulkheads, length etc, and a SOT will not work.
Picks up seaweed like nobody’s business! Gaaah, I can not overstate this enough… and you don’t even notice it unless you are tracking your speed. Seaweed/weeds get caught around the drive and take a full knot off your speed! You have to stop pull the drive up, pull out the weeds, reseat and repeat. Seriously my biggest pet peeve!
Steering by rudder is easy, fast and efficient… until you have waves behind you picking up your stern… then you have no steering at all! Got to keep your paddle in your hands then.
And the caveat about self-rescues, whilst it is easy to pull yourself up on a sit-on-top, that only applies when you are not cold or injured in any way. After a few failed attempts you are going to be in trouble, whether you have a sling or something with you or not. Basically, don’t think you are safer on a SOT when out on your own. As mentioned in other threads other kayakers have witnessed SOT users not being able to pull themselves up at all.
I love my Hobie for what it is, a fast, luxurious, featureful touring boat that is a lot of fun but a lot of work to get up and out onto the water.
-edit- I glossed over the “calm lakes” part, whoops! Well take what I said with the assumption that one day you might want to take your purchase out on the sea as you get more adventurous. Feel free to DM me if you want any specifics on the Hobie etc. I will end by saying, whilst Craigslist is a barren wasteland at the moment, I still think a good $500 used plastic sea-kayak will give you the most bang for your buck and stay with you the longest as your skills and wants develop.
Totally agree. Wasn’t saying the Hobie I bought was definitely right for him but thought it’d be helpful to pass along my thoughts and why I like it for me.
The best thing I did was rent it first, along with some other (non-pedal) kayaks I was considering and made the decision after I tried them all out.
Thanks for the insight. I assume a narrow sit-on will be less stable. I guess I’m not considering a pedal anymore due to plants, and price (for a beginner).
I’m gonna sit around this summer and watch what appears. I’m not counting on good new boat deals becoming available before fall, and don’t expect good used deals. so i consider all this here research to act this winter
I mentally lined up what roof cross bars and other fasteners I need to buy. Once kayaks appear on the market, I can order those. I just don’t want to order them now when no actual kayaks are likely.
I think I’m more leaning towards a 12’-14’ sit-in. Used or something like the Perception et al price range. Features should be molded (or otherwise solidly built handles), bulkheads and easily accessible storage well.
I did notice in that size they only have a rear bulk-head. I realize a front bulkhead would interfere with the feet on a short kayak. But still would hope they could have 2 bulkheads.
While I sit and wait, I enjoy my other hobbies and may rent some kayaks. That way I also know how much time I actually can commit. I don’t want to say money is no object, but hope for $1K all in (inc. roof solution and PFD) or a bit more I should be able to get started with something decent. this isn’t gonna be my main hobby, but I tend to keep equipment for many years.
That is a good well reasoned plan and that type of boat sounds perfect for what you want to do. Like with regular boats there may well be a glut of them on the market come fall/winter as people realize they didn’t use them as much as they thought, or they are taking up space on their garages etc.
The only other thing I would suggest is making sure you get a decent paddle too. You don’t need to go crazy but between $100 to $150 gets a nice paddle that will really help with your enjoyment out on the water. The prevailing wisdom (from some, not all) is with $1000 buy a $750 boat and a $250 paddle. In today’s market I think you just have to focus on the boat but keep in mind that a cheap $30 paddle is going to get old fast. Any extra you can swing to making that a $100 paddle will go a long way.
If you do get a nice paddle now it may make your rental experience better as well. If you are lucky though you will find a rental place that has good paddles and you can try out a few to see what you like first.
Good luck! I’m not sure I understood the part about this not being you main hobby, there are others ?
The used kayaks I see typically come with a cheap paddle. I would just use that first to find out what my paddle style is before buying a better paddle. I read about low and high angle etc… lots of stuff one doesn’t know before actually paddling. I’m totally prepared to buy a $150+ paddle once I know what the best for ME is.
BTW, do Kayakers actually use those paddle leashes to prevent losing the paddle? Or is that just marketing for beginners? Do they impede actual paddling?
I actually made some progress and actually ordered the cross bars for my car. Once those are installed, I’m ready to wait for good deals and don’t snooze this time. Re-reading the thread, I realize the above mentioned Whistler would have been a good boat. But I just wasn’t ready to transport, or to know what to start with.
You are probably going to buy, use, sell and try many different setups before you find they one you really like. There is nothing wrong with having different components (ex. high and low angle paddles) to change up occasionally. I can’t say for sure but I think many on this forum have a couple extra everything kicking around…
I use a leash once in awhile if I am doing things that require me to put my paddle down quickly (fishing or video). It does get in the way sometimes but it beats trying to locate a black paddle when the distraction passes.
I am sure someone has mentioned this already but if you see a boat for sale that is “reasonable for you” go check it out. Worst case is you buy something to try and then sell it for something different. Hesitation always favors someone else.
The Perception Conduit 13 has everything you mentioned and is a nice kayak as well. 13’, stable, two bulkheads, plenty of storage, tracks well, under $1000 new and it’s comfortable.
Just FYI it is 100% possible, even in the current market, to buy a used kayak, use it for the summer, and sell it in the fall, without losing any money. I have myself bought one and counseled a friend to buy another, and have 100% confidence that either could be sold in November for as much as, if not more than, what we paid. This does require, as Willowleaf said, being able to jump on a good deal.
I try to limit the purchases and sales. I think the requirement of 2 bulkheads limits it quite a bit anyway.
I looked at the Perception conduit 13’again and don’t see the front bulkhead. Am I missing something? they only point out the rear bulkhead. At least on the picture the “C” is in the rear. it has front storage, but that doesn’t necessarily mean bulkhead.
I considered flotation bags for the front since that would open up so many more boats But think I rather pay more for the kayak instead of buying the flotation bag. And the bag also needs to be re-inflated and still will have less buouyancy. A bulkhead never gets forgotten, doesn’t need to be fixed, doesn’t need to be inflated. Obviously that would be a nice new kayak if it had 2 bulk heads.
I noticed many manufacturers have a recreational 12-14’ selection, which only shows the rear bulkhead. and a touring oriented kayak of same size with 2 bulkheads. I would think they would advertise it better if they have 2 bulkheads.
Sure, someone very flexible and knowledgeable can make money buying and selling kayaks (or anything else). But I have a full time job and if a good deal appears now 40 miles away, I can’t be there before some time later in the week or the weekend. And I’m not knowledgeable
Do people usually sell their boats in fall, or do people keep them over winter assuming in spring there is more demand? I guess someone desperate for money may sell in fall knowing they lose some money.
Here’s a good boat for $950 paddle included plus they’ll deliver it. No sales tax. Better than the Conduit, I’m guessing. Haven’t paddled the boat myself but CD kayaks is a definite good quality brand.
After paddling only canoes for ten years, unexpectedly, a composite CD Kestrel 140 sort of just happened.
First time paddling a kayak. First kayak, too. Not disappointed with it in any way. I’ll be happy with this kayak for some time to come.
It’s only natural for most of us to wonder about other boats, performance, etc etc - but this one fulfills all my current wishes for paddling a couple time a week.
I enjoy the Kestrel 140’s range of performance, handling, comfort, utility and design conveniences.
It has a front bulk head. I own one. It is a good option for what you seem to be looking for. Current designs makes a nice kayak and I am sure the Kestrel would be a great choice as well.
You can receive lots of advice here but you will never know what suits you and your needs until you get practical experience.
Good to know it has 2 bulkheads. I’m surprised they don’t make such features more obvious. I totally see myself buying that and keep for a few years. the ones Perceptions actually has in stock, are available from them directly under MSRP. So I assume in fall I can get one for a good price.
The Kestrel ad is already deleted. So it probably was a good deal
I’m pretty sure before July 4th weekend there will be nothing good used available that doesn’t sell right away. And my experience with FB and CL is that half the ads still showing are already sold and the seller just didn’t bother deleting it.
I looked at the classifieds of this site. but since I can’t sort by location, it didn’t seem helpful. Is there a typical classified for Kayaks local to me besides CL and FB? I just assume everyone posting on a kayak-specific platform also posts on FB and/or CL. So I’m not necessarily missing any offers.
