Celia, thank you for adding
comments to my query.
I was initially more interested in the technique of riding out a storm rather than the politics of rescues, weather forecasters etc.
It is interesting that there is a marked difference in the replies I have received from this forum and the one in Australia (I posed the same question).
Thank you for your input.
Gnarlydog
Gear intensive
If it is not possible to paddle it out, one must have the necessary gear.
But having the gear sort of allows one to entertain the idea that one could go out when one shouldn’t…
As noted before, if paddling it out, keep the bow pointed into the wind and paddle. Second possibility is to keep the bow downwind. The choice is partly dependent on boat design. The Valley Pintail, for example, will be much easier to keep into the wind than other designs. Deploying a skeg or rudder will make it impossible to keep into the wind under paddler power; this statement is only true if the situation is truly unpaddleable, ie, survival, situation. If you can keep a boat paddling into the wind with a skeg or rudder deployed, then it is only your mind holding you back, it is not a desperate situation.
The disadvantage to bow downwind is the risk of getting surfed and broached. Aggressive backpaddling is required, a skill many do not train for.
As for gear, the necessary piece of equipment is a sea anchor/drogue. These can be phenomenal in their ability to hold position (including a rafted pair of kayaks getting through a nasty surf zone). The advantage to the device is that it keeps you into the wind, making it less likely that you will be knocked over by gusts or breaking waves. It also slows your drift tremendously.
And as divergence from survival practices in sailboats, etc, a group of kayakers should indeed raft up when using a drogue. It is necessary that the raft be clipped into one another (contact tow lines are great for this), and preferably the drogue connected to as many boats as possible, not one. The forces involved can easily pull out deck fittings, so spread out the forces!
Of particular note, when deploying a drogue onto a single kayak, the drogue should if possible be clipped through the toggle, then onto the deck line. Don’t use the toggle only (same reasons as towing), but do run the line through it. In really big winds (over 30kn), just that slightly farther back allows the bow forward of the connection to catch wind and pivot off the clip point. The result is that you are not quite bow into the wind, just slightly off, and enough to be unsettled.
One time, after a bit of hypothesizing, a group of us went out in a good winter wind (34-40kn), and working out this situation. If we didn’t have a drogue, could we…
Remove hatch covers from one boat, and partly sink it to use in place of a drogue. Clip in our raft, with the paddler of the sunk boat lying across everyones skirt, and with the other paddlers holding and leaning over him.
It was very stable for the people still in their boats, very unpleasant and cold for the person out and lying across (but not quite as cold as expected, with the others draping and hugging). The best way for the for the partially sunk boat was to clip into the stern only, fully flood the rear compartment, and only partially flood the bow compartment.
Retrieval of this situation, however, was very, very difficult. We did not try a long line to the bow of the boat to see if we could bring it around (I have a light parachute type cord tied to the front of my drogue, which, when pulled, reverses the cone and allows one to retrieve the drogue).
These are situations, IMO, best experimented with in reasonable and survivable conditions. It may drive home the idea that it is better to try the skills, and learn that one will do whatever it takes to avoid using them.
I rarely, if ever, take a drogue with me anymore.
Karl
Rideing out a storm
The original question had to do with a sudden summer storm with winds about 40 mph. As stated in the post, these storms are generally over in short duration.
It dealt with the question of rafting up, whether to leave the kayak and if so, should they hang on to the bow or stern. Stated again, stay in the kayak, don’t raft up (broken wrist, lack of control), paddle into the wind.
Using a drouge can work, but in 12 years of paddling and 50 years of power boating, I have never met anyone who had one in their kayak or boat. They may have owned one, but no-one ever had one when needed.
Other factors, sand bars, reefs, eagles swooping down to harass you, and so on, amy require deviating from the rules, but if you don’t know the rules to start with, you are likely to do something that you shouldn’t.
OK - now I am curious
– Last Updated: Nov-25-08 11:12 AM EST –
As I mentioned above, it seems that you have a pretty comprehensive system in place in Australia, albeit one that is a bit different from what people expect in the US. I also read "Fatal Storm" - re the 1996 Syndey to Hobart race - and walked away very impressed by the demeanor of the Australian crews in terrifying conditions.
I can also see someone arguing that it might be a plan to get people in the water hanging onto their boats to act as a version of a sea anchor, in order to keep people from spreading out too much. The concern I've usually heard about that is doing so leaves you one step away from a paddler and boat getting separated and being blown willy-nilly rather than two - capsize then subsequently lose contact with the boat. (assuming no one gets on the wrong end of the kayak on a wave face) But that's a lot easier for someone like me, who fully floats in the water with a drysuit and PFD on, than a big guy who might have to do a little swimming.
So - as folks who regularly paddle in conditions that are riskier than the average day along the eastern seaboard of the US, what kind of advice came in from the other board?
Me.
We have been caught out in 70 KMPH 33 knots several times and a couple of times with newer paddlers.
40 knots means no headway, survival is the word. Anyone that talks about playing in these conditions is full of it.
I have been out in 40 knots but there was no control.
While rafting can stop a capsize it sucks up a solid strrong paddler to stick to a casualty.
Flares, SOS and guess what!: no one wants to come at over 35 knots.
The best advice is don’t get caught in anything like this.
very accurate.
I CAN’T make headway with sustained winds over 75 KM about 35 knots.
I hide in wave troughs.
Rafting up in such conditions
is a danger. Fingers get hurt then boats get thrown over each other.
40 knots open water you are in survival mode.
Alone I would tutn and run with the weather aiming for a known protected take out (Harbour).
Failing that turn her nose into the wind and try to keep it there, the boat will weather cock to this safer attitude on its own if you pull UP the skeg or rudder.
I also tie my tow line (waste mounted) to the boat beacause I know I can’t swim worth a damn and the 40 knot wind will pull the boat along nicely.
Hi.
Celia has always placed well informed posts. This and I don’t know her.
I am president of Kayak Newfoundland and Labrador, I have been out in these conditions with a class and alone. I got caught out in a storm with my wife but the wind was behind us and the take out well sheltered. We ran at almost 8 knots for 9 nautical miles. (it was great but my wife Cecilia (not Celia) was not to taken with it all.
Point into the wind if you don’t have a better option and I tie my tow line to the boats life line. (that is contentious) .
To raft or not to raft
– Last Updated: Nov-25-08 10:41 AM EST –
This question raises quite a few "ifs". I would think if everyone in the group has good paddling skills, you might try to keep together and gently paddle into the wind and hold direction. But if you have paddlers with marginal skills, perhaps rafting might be better because you can loose a paddler in the flurry of the storm and they might be in the water. You never really know what you're in for or how long it's going to last. 40 mph is not bad but if it climbs and builds up with breaking waves, perhaps a raft would be better?? I don't think it's quite as black and white a decision as some posters suggest where rafting up automatically means broken wrists and disaster. In all those disaster stories in Sea Kayaker Magazine, it's always a seperated paddler who gets in trouble. When was the last time you read a story about rafted up paddlers in trouble?
Sometime…
Gee thanks, though I’m sure I’ll do something to mess that up shortly. Your waters look darned nice to paddle in if I can retrieve my retirement from a certain overage of volunteer or quasi-volunteer activities I signed on for. I decided on a theme of spending time with animals, It’s terribly enjoyable, but until they get anything other than cats to use an automatic KL box can be somewhat time consuming.
Rafting clarification
The issue with rafting a group of kayaks is that the raft will likely come to rest beams to the weather.
If you haven’t experienced this situation yet, you will try it once and never do it again. If it is wind only, things are ok, but if waves are breaking, so will boats, paddles, and bodies.
At 40kn of wind, I don’t think this is likely, but at 50kn and over, a near certainty.
If one can paddle, then in winds up to 40kn, keep paddling into the wind. The issue here is if one is able to turn their boat into the wind, IMO, the vast majority of paddlers will be unable to do so.
Once you are bow into the wind, it is not that hard to keep pointed into the wind. There is an important bit of timing involved; if, when the bow is rising up on a wave, the paddler must keep the bow pointed directly into the wind. If it is not, one will be very surprised at the rapidity in which the boat will be slammed off the wind. Powerful bow draws/rudders are key (most effective, but requiring confidence, are cross bow draws).
Back to rafting up…to repeat, if one cannot keep pointed bow to the wind (or be comfortable downwind and surfing, my choice in 40kn), then by all means, raft up. It will be nasty, but survivable. An advantage kayakers have over all other boats in this situation is the ability to heel as far over as possible, and laying your body over the boat next to you. This is critical. If the raft broaches (which will be a function of the number of boats in the raft, ie, is the number of boats makes the raft wider than the length of the boats), the paddler on the weather side must turn and lie face down onto the boat next to them, and present the hull of their boat to the wind.
But over 40kn…you will need some way of keeping the raft pointed into the wind. As noted in my prior post, this is a drogue, partially sunk boat, etc. This is not something to read about and assume one can pull it off when the situation arises.
Big crossing
There is unavoidable exposure in crossings that big. Don’t dwaddle, get across as quickly as possible. Do not attempt if you are slow or insufficiently experienced or otherwise not prepared.
A storm like you describe is when every paddler needs good enough clothing, equipment, strength and skill - you will not be able to count on assisted rescues. The boats will separate. Your best shot is to try to keep heading into the wind. Use your radios to re-connect after the storm subsides. You might well be swimming by then, without your boat.
Reggie, you might want to settle
by the fire this “winter” while I want to paddle.
Did I mention that I live in Australia (yes there are other countries in the world beside the US and A :-).
Temperatures are balmy 80F + and water is warm enough to swim for hours on end with swimwear only (or none, if you so fancy).
I sure will read some more books, however I will still look for first hand experiences from “common mortal” kayakers.
Celia, to satisfy your curiosity:
most sensible replies I got from the Australian forum were more based on technique versus equipment.
What I believe is a great tip is to pull up the rudders and retract skegs and paddle into the wind (mentioned also on this forum). A skeg or rudder will pivot the kayak downwind (leecock) and make it surf with the waves (maybe not desirable).
Only few stated the obvious: don’t go out in weather like that…
Nobody mentions radios (I think they would be very hard to operate in conditions like that… would not want to have all hands on paddle to be able to brace?)
Nobody seems to go into the politics of rescue operations.
Don’t raft up !
While I respect everyones ideas, I have to shudder at the thought of rafting up in winds of 40mph & up. Anytime I have been out in weather like that, I found that if I was 30’ or so away from my buddy, I probably couldn’t see the top of his head because of the waves. Rafting up doesn’t do anything to make the water any smoother, but it ties the boats together. In one post here, it was suggested that the kayaks tie up end to end. If someone goes over, how can anyone maneuver to help?
I have taught boating safety classes for years, and have never seen anything in print from any respected organization (Coast Guard, Power Squadron, Champman’s Boating, ect) that would advise rafting up in this situation. It robs you of any control.
Even in the group test that Jay outlined, one sacrificial person ends up in the water and one kayak is flooded in the hatches, and this is just in preparation for the oncoming storm. As he says, it was cold and uncomfortable for the brave volunteer, but it was hard to get him back in service later.
Maybe this method isn’t found in boating safety courses because the people who tried it didn’t make it back to shore.
Uhhhhhh
I will be quite aggressive here.
Your opinion does not lie with experience.
Boating safety classes, Chapmans, Coast Guard…whatever you have quoted in prior posts in this thread displays one thing-
your experience is in books, not the environment.
Whatever works for motor launches, sail vessels, etc, DOES NOT automatically apply with kayaks.
Example?
Nearly all other boats cannot roll (well, some Coasties out here at the Columbia River have a cool boat that can…).
Other boats rely on ballast for stability. We don’t (with unloaded boats, our center of gravity is silly compared to other ocean going craft). We can heel at will, independent of surface conditions…need I go on?
Of critical note, my advice has been based on experience. Not only that, shared experience, as my findings have been shared with other coaches throughout the globe.
It (rafting up) is a legitimate method for sea kayaking, when properly done.
More examples?
Very simply, in high winds, just how would one perform an assisted rescue…if one is told, “don’t raft up”?
Done it many times, taught many.
If my post appears aggressive, I do not apologize. The absolute advice, “do not raft up”, is flawed.
karl
step by step
I’ll admit, I’m in the don’t-ever camp right now, but I’ve got an open mind. One of the biggest problems I have is assembling the raft in rough seas. Can you give a step-by-step description of how you transition from individual to raft? Let’s assume 6 kayaks, 2 novices, 2 intermediates, and 2 experts, one of which is you and let’s stipulate that you are the recognized group leader.
Capsizing Rafts
I have personally been in three raftup situations of two paddlers that have capsized in breaking waves (shallow sandbar-Tybee Island, Georgia. Waves were 3-4 feet and wind was minimal. Thankfully we were training and it was a great learning experience. As soon as the raft went beam to the waves and the right wave broke at the right time, we were over. No one else in the class that was paddling about the scenario even thought of capsizing. During another training we had a real injury (two cracked ribs) and the raft of three (one paddler on each side of the injured paddler)was being towed by an inline tow of three pretty famous paddlers. All were moving downwave. That raft capsized with the victim out of his boat yet again and hurting. Waves were similar and you can bet that raft was zipping along given that it was a very real rescue. There were several advanced paddlers about this raft also, and none came close to capsizing. Victim was towed to shore to ambulance and was fine. I feel pretty nervous about rafts in breaking waves from my personal experience. Big swell, no problem. Perhaps even some breaking waves with a tow to the raft that could maintain the raft’s bows into the waves. Anyone played with that for real? Cheers
Cascade decisions
The specific situation will determine how it is done, but here is a framework.
First, try to get everyone pointed into the wind. If they can, then they have proven that there skill is up to the task. Continue on.
If one person cannot turn upwind, a strong leader can raft up with that one person and help them turn upwind. If the less competent paddler holds onto the forward portion of the strong paddler’s boat (about just forward of the forward hatch), they can pivot off the strong paddlers boat and steer the contact tow into the wind. This allows the strong paddler to just paddler forward strokes only, and let the other be sort of a “super bow rudder”.
If more than one person needs this assist, then this increases the risk to the group as a whole. At this juncture, the leader should consider rafting the entire group.
Next part of the judgement/decision process is; if everyone in the group can turn into the wind, can they keep their boats pointed there. If not, the risk of losing one person becomes very high. Unless one has practiced rescues in these conditions, do not assume you can do it. If someone who is terrified broaches and tips, it is more likely they will not have the presence of mind to hold on to their boat. An unloaded boat in this situation will be gone in an instant. Sending a strong paddler to retrieve it would increase risk to all,as a paddler with a boat in tow may not be able to rejoin the group. Thus making retrieval pointless.
The biggest issue in performing an assisted rescue in these conditions is not the re-entry itself. Indeed, once one is rafted, it is quite comforting to the swimmer and the rescuer. The difficulties are threefold. One, it is very difficult for a rescuer to turn up or downwind (takes time and distance to perform)as boat control is hampered (more later). Second, people get into trouble trying to empty out the boat. Skip it, just raft up, and have the victim pump out, especially since it is almost certain it will be necessary to continue in a contact tow (prevent that second capsize). Third, during the rescue you will very quickly come beam to the weather. Again, stay in the contact tow to help the victim back into the wind.
If you are still with me, we are now at part two of the judgement/decision process, group management. Except that I have to sign off for the day…
Karl