What?
Around the UK if you shout Mayday you will have help in a hurry.
It’s a tiny island with a huge population. Once it ruled the seas.
RNLI (Royal National Life Boat Institute) is like the local fire brigade. They are everywhere and they arrive fast. They have excellent gear, good training and local knowledge.
Newfoundland Canada has a larger land mass and coastline with a half million people. Here you have to wonder where the Coast guard is. (Coast guard Auxiliary is pretty good all the same; I had to call them this year).
RNLI is what sets the standards for maritime rescue.
3 miles
Due west:
Southerly winds at 35 knots:
You would have to ferry in 20 foot seas (6M).
Landing would be interesting if you could not find a sheltered spot.
We had three coast Guardsmen killed here when their boat (a fast rescue craft) was thrown against a shore line.
We were caught in such winds and 1 to 1.5 meter swells (Low fetch). We managed to get behind an island to find a “beach” to land in. It got us out of trouble and we were evacuated by a speed boat shortly after our landing.
I am not sure I could do 3 Nautical Miles in a 35 Knot winfd and 6 M seas. I would likely go for it but only if I could get behind the island for a safe landing.
60 KM
I have towed a raft in 50 - 60 KM winds About 500 Meters. # foot waves are fine if you are going straight into them. Any confused seas and a raft is a dangerous thing.
The finest paddler I know was pummeled when he rafted with a speed boat to help stabalize the boat as a swimmer (once a kayaker) was pulled aboard. (70 KM winds and 1.5 M seas.
The spead boat was thrown on top of my friend capsizing his boat and holding it under water (No roll happening there)
My friend swam. He was hauled (wet and cold) onto the speed boat eliminating the best rescue asset we had that day.
Rafting is often just the wrong thing to do.
A nugget
If you are paddling into a hard wind get your rudder or skeg up.
If you are running with the wind drop the skeg.
The reason for getting that thing out of the water is so if the wind pushes you backward you won’t be broached as the stern of your boat stays put and you spin around it like a rag on a nail.
Tow
We have a decent paddler help with a rafted arrangement while another paddler runs a tow line to them both holding them into the weather. As the casualty and the contact rescuer pump, the contact rescuer re assures the casualty and keeps the tow end of the rescue informed as well as he can.
We have had 3 people in a husky tow doing this in les than 2 M seas and >25 knot winds.
Great big rafts… I don’t see it.
I am with Jerry Smith…
and I doubt that you have had real experience in a horrendous storm.
You might play around with it in decent conditions, but you would end up with your boats and bodies getting the crap beat out of them.
Cheers,
JackL
Great spot to paddle
– Last Updated: Nov-26-08 8:16 AM EST –
Forecasts here are dubious, always. An Island seperating the Gulf Stream from the Labrador Current is fun and we are on the weather path for everything. Hurricanes usually tame down over the colder water so we don't have as many huricanes or tornadoes as some.
We have lots of open water and this year was a strange one. Since January of this yrear I have paddled with seals on ice pans, around a laborynth of ice when the ice feilds come in, around huge ice bergs, with whales, sun fish, a large black bear, a massive leather back turtle.
We have had a couple of "real" rescues, lots of tows.
This and i have not been out as much as usual.
The club web page is www.kayakers.nf.ca
Unlike the original post we have bitterly cold water almost everywhere and all year around.
The original post is in Australia, so being out of the boat for a few minutes may not be a problem.
Here it's trouble!
If you, or any paddler gets here we are paddling all the time.
About the radios
Aside from possibly having a weather radio that lets you know you can breathe easy because the storm is veering off away from you, I did not envision people being able to use the things and handle those conditions at the same time. I was more thinking about their value if paddlers got separated so that people were out of sight from each other by the time the storm ended. If everyone had a radio, they could communicate to use landmarks or GPS info (assuming the GPS, boat and paddler are all still associated) to say where they got blown to.
I may be overly focused on the recovery part. We spent an afternoon being slapped in an ocean bay with a river running out to the sea and it was very lucky that the wind was blowing towards the opposite shore rather than the same direction as the current.
Inexperienced paddlers are beginners,
are they not?
“How do you keep a group of paddlers together? especially if the paddlers are rather inexperienced (not beginners, since they should never be out that far, just not experienced with surf and waves…)”
Rather inexperienced paddlers should not be 5 miles offshore. Ad in the potential for a summer squall, and you have got a model for Darwinism.
I read on this site from time to time accounts of people paddling in sustained 40 knot winds. Downwind, maybe. Upwind? Really? I don’t see it for any real distance for most of us mortals. I live in Michigan, and very rarely do we even see sustained 40 knot winds. I bet maybe one or two times a year (sustained) excluding the winter months over the ice.
I am VERY comfortable with my ability to raft up to someone needing help. My arm length, weight, and strength make it easier for me. I would never enter a rafting in dumping water. For this discussion I am assuming that sustained 40 knot winds will result in dumping waves. If it were only breaking waves without a hoisting action I would attempt a raft if necessary.
Jerry is correct to claim that the standard protocol for “riding” out a storm is to maintain forward momentum with your bow into the oncoming sea. Before I got too tired, I would lay down on the water in a half static brace/ half skull and relax as much as possible while staying as close as possible to the weakest paddler. I would try to keep the group together (good luck), but might consider two man pairings whose responsibility it is to at least stay with your partner if the group scatters.
I’ll finish were I started. Inexperienced paddlers should not be five miles offshore, and definitely not during weather conditions that could support high winds. The notion that a group of inexperienced paddlers could hold together a rafting in 40knots plus is also highly unlikely. The injuries that would likely be sustained would lower the chances of a positive outcome as well.
postscript: I am a Great Lakes paddler, and as such my wave experience is based on these waters, which are different from ocean waters.
There’s a lot of crap on this website
but every now and then a discussion like this starts and it reminds me why I hang around.
Every well reasoned comment helps to paint a picture. Not sure I will remember any of it were I suddenly thrust into this type situation, but it sure broadens my list of scenarios to think through and practice.
It (rafting up) is a legitimate method
Amen!
I lack Karl’s experience and credentials, but I have rafted out a storm. On that day in those conditions, it may have saved my life. The entire story is too long for this forum. Made a lot of mistakes, but also made a lot of good decisions. Rafting was a good decision.
Winds 30-40 kn (confirmed by weather report pulled next day). Relatively shallow bay, caught in middle of 3 mile crossing. No storm forecast–arrived in minutes, lasted an hour. Wave period under 2 secs, wave height about head high (from seated position). Too exhausted to keep paddling into the storm or try to surf ahead of it. Raft worked fine–had no anxiety about injury or capsize once rafted. Key was to commit fully to rafting (ez thing to do, but some folks just can’t bring themselves to do it). Lay whole upper body over the other boat. Don’t sit upright and try to hold on with hands and arms. Your boat will be pretty much sitting on its side or chines. Rafted up like this, there is very little slamming between the boats, great upper body strength is not required to stay together, rafted paddles get a breather.
I don’t think Karl is advocating
the rafting of a kayak and speed boat
similar experience
in the Apostle Islands. 30-40 knot winds out of the NE. First time I had been in those conditions. Very unnerving to discover I could not turn up wind. Dropped skegs and lee cocked, rafted up with 4 other boats, juryrigged a sail and sailed down to Red Cliff. Pinched fingers and hands until you learn to fully commit to the deck of your neighbor’s boat. Smooth sailing after that till we got to land. Then all in and scramble up the boat ramp for a cup of hot cocoa. Ahh! Dry land. 
moparharn, how long is a piece of
string?
How do you define “rather inexperienced”?
See, there is a marked difference between US culture and Australian culture.
While I lived in USA for 7 years I learned that the yanks love to talk a big game and rarely deliver.
Moving to Australia I notice quite the opposite: here they seem to understate things.
So when I say: “rather inexperienced” I am describing a group of paddlers where each of them can self rescue, surf small waves and brace.
All of them have attended formal basic training (again I mean: several courses on rescues and boat control)
In Australia when you say experienced you have to be able to back it up.
People will take you up on it.
You might be asked be join a group for a surf session with 10’ breaking waves.
So, they rather downplay it here 
Furthermore I always comply with the Australian Canoeing (National Body) guidelines when it comes to leading a group of paddlers.
While I appreciate your comment I believe the same criticism has been stated before in this thread.
I am still looking for CONSTRUCTIVE PERSONAL ACCOUNTS that I can draw wisdom from.
Continued
I believe I need to take a different tack, it seems I may have been too subtle.
This is what most will experience in 40kn wind.
Turning up or downwind is only possible for very strong, experienced experts. Unfortunately, strength is indeed part of the equation at this point. Also, it is not possible to pivot in place (ie, combining forward and reverse sweeps). This is a very technical situation. Again, count on having your boat locked beam to the weather.
Next, if one can turn downwind, you will be put one into one of the most frightening (or fun) following seas you can imagine. Count on broaching, at which point you either flip, or wind up in the initial situation.
If you can turn upwind, your forward progress will be next to nothing. If you are very strong, you may be able to paddle for 1-2nm before exhaustion. Every stroke feels liken a max effort in the weight room, you will move a foot or two every stroke. This statement needs to be qualified, in light of the duration and fetch the wind has experienced. A more fully developed sea, with bigger waves, will allow some “wiggle room” when in the troughs. But the original post implied a sudden situation, as in a squall line or katabatic wind. This is worse than a fully developed sea, as the full force of the wind is on the kayak.
Also, once into the wind, there is a diagnostic feature if it is truly 40kn or above.
It will hurt.
The spray off the wave tops feel much like what I imagine a fire hose to feel like. Closing your eyes is not enough, you must duck your head. If you are not wearing a helmet, the top of your head will hurt.
Staying beam to the weather has it’s obvious issues, that of being knocked over by wind, waves, or both. If you wet exit, you must hold on fiercely, as the force on the boat is big. Oddly enough, it is easier to hold onto a loaded boat! Also, rolling is only possible when setting up upwind.
Given this, what do you think you can do?
Very little.
Try rafting up, as it may be your only hope.
BTW, just as comparing yachts, motor boats, etc, in these conditions will behave differently, so does trying to raft up with a larger vessel! Another kayak next to you will behave like your kayak, a large boat would behave differently- it will not rise at the same rate, therefore, what do you hold onto? If your are upwind and beam to (yikes!), you are dealing with wave reflection. It just isn’t pertinent to compare that situation with another kayak.
If anyone hasn’t figured it out by now, I am not speaking from a conjectural point of view.
Gnarlydog…Uh…Ok… next time I
will try infer what you mean by your WRITTEN words a little more correctly. I guess if you were from France I would have to assume that rather inexperienced means something completely different. What was originally written, and what you say now sound a little different to me.
By the way, I gave you my thoughts based on my experience, or were you looking for me to have been caught in a ten mile crossing with “relatively inexperienced” paddlers in conditions favorable for a storm. I am glad that I can’t offer you that experience. I not going to let bravado cloud my judgement. Last time I checked Australians drown the same as the rest of us, and ten miles is ten miles. I will grant one thing though, those miles are a hell of alot more dangerous down under. Sorry you did not like my comments, I thought they were sensible.
Bill
Step one
First step- you have very little time, be prepared to do a triage and cut losses.
The least experienced will be locked beam to the weather, and if the wind came up suddenly, there could be a capsize. The leader has a dilemma; position yourself upwind of the group, where you can more likely be heard, or downwind, where you can pick up pieces. If there is a co-leader, you can position one upwind, one down.
Be warned that,if a “leader” cannot turn their boat either up or downwind, they can no longer assume a leader’s role. You are not much better off than the others (perhaps more likely to be able to roll, is all).
If one or more people find they can turn their boats, the ones that cannot do so need to raft together first. The less experienced paddlers may only be comfortable paddling on the upwind side (greater stability), like a canoe; this might need to be encouraged.
Do not, repeat, do not, have the leader be the one to have people raft up on! The moment someone else rafts onto the leader, they (the leader) can no longer perform the tasks of a leader. The leader needs to be the last person onto the raft. It is possible for a strong person to actually work their way around the raft, leaning their body and heeling their boat so much that the seam line is well under. However, if the raft is still pointed into the wind, it will not be possible to work your way around the weather side of the raft. It is possible alongside the beam of another boat, if the raft is beam to the weather.
As noted by others, positioning in the raft is important. Keeping bodies and boats upright is very unsettling, allow a lot more bumping of boats, and is tiring. Lay the paddles across the boats, and lean as far over an lay your body across the next boat.
And then tell a lot of jokes, and enjoy the vacuum flask of tea.
Karl
inexper = not practiced with waves/surf
Gnarlydog, you did say in your original post “inexperienced with surf and waves”, and I note that moparhorn quoted that part before beginning his comments. Since a storm with 40 knot winds is bound to be accompanied with sizeable waves and a good chance that some of those waves will be breaking (and thus like surf), I think it’s fair to say that those people should not be out there when there is any significant chance of such a storm.
Another important skill, I think, is the ability to successfully roll in turbulent waters. Do your relatively-inexperienced paddlers have the ability to do this, or will their first capsize result in people in the water?
Australian Canoe Club
For what it’s worth, I can see there being a group of paddlers who might have a roll but not yet one that is bomb-proof in breaking stuff out on such a trip. First, because for some of us mortals it can take time to get that roll reliable in conditions - I’m one for whom it took a long time to get it out of the pool and breaking surf is still left to manage. The only way to get there is to go out in a properly monitored situation where, if you can’t roll up, you won’t totally panic and you have some backup.
If you take a look at the ACC program, a bunch out under their program is likely to have better bracing skills and more ability to hold it together mentally in a dump than many of the summer warriors we see when we are paddling the coast of Maine in July. They are certainly much better prepared than we were the first time we got caught out in a storm in extremely inappropriate 13’ transitional boats and no wetsuits etc. Tho’ since then I’ve appreciated the way adrenaline can instantly improve surfing skills.
I suspect, though it hasn’t been responded to here, that these trips include things like a good ratio of guides etc. The only thing that seems say interesting is that the recovery is being viewed as a separate part from handling the conditions. If a couple of your paddlers made it thru the squall physically OK but they or their boat are being carried a significant distance from the group and you are well out from land you still have a problem. But overall, the ACC program is worth a look in the context of this original post.
Hi Gnarlydog
I’ve heard that it’s best to get on land or in the marsh if there is lightning. One person I was headed out with said he would break into someone’s back porch if there was a thunderstorm, and I told him to turn around and take me home. He was going on and on about how he could sue people for not offing assistance. I would make sure these people know that you will do the best you can but that rafting up or an assisted rescue may not be enough to compensate for their own inexperience during a bad storm or in open water. I still go out with this guy but meet them at the landing at places that aren’t challenging.
It’s real nice paddling with people who are on the same page or even more experienced.