That is absolutely wrong Nate
A sailing vessel is restricted “when” sailing with engine off. A kayak is NOT RESTRICTED.
If you are referring to some local Inland state laws this may apply but absolutely not to the International or Inland Colregs.
You are wrong!
You are suggesting a kayak falls into the “restricted” category and that is NOT CORRECT.
This is a huge assumption kayakers make and it is blatantly wrong, inconsiderate, and potentially dangerous.
Well said
– Last Updated: Apr-20-10 3:16 PM EST –
Kayakers may assume another vessel is discourteous when in fact said vessel is operating in compliance with the Rules! Deviating from the Rules is only needed to avoid a collision or avoid danger to another vessel. Short of that the stand on vessel is required to maintain course and speed. The Rub comes in where a kayaker feels threatened Vs reality.
nchill, that doesn’t match.
I was looking at the US Coast Guard page and it doesn’t have the same comments for vessels under “paddles” or “oars”:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule18.htm
Kayaks referred to by CG
In the FAQ page…
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules_faq.htm#0.3_13
The fact that you asked the question
is reason enough to require licensing of ALL boaters !
that all sounds very fine and dandy
(“go take a class”, etc.), but in the real world people are just as confused as they are here. I took the CG Auxiliary boating safety course when I first moved here–a six or seven week course. Took it from the point of view as a kayaker and always asked questions from the point of view of a kayaker. No one had any idea. About lighting, “rules of the road”, etc. These various sacred cows of yours–no one had any idea. In my opinion the Coast Guard needs to revisit the Colregs and rewrite them with kayakers in mind the way they did when jet skiis appeared.
Typical problems:
A kayak can go anywhere, but it can only go there at 3 knots. Is it restricted or not? With respect to draft, no, but with respect to speed, yes. In other words, if I can’t get out of your way, what good does my much vaunted “mobility” do?
What do you do about lights? With both hands on a paddle, you can’t really hold a flash light. And forget about shining it on your sail that doesn’t exist. I take the single 360-degree constant white light to be the best solution, but when I asked in class, the question lead to a bunch of head scratching. This in the CG head quarters in Monterey Bay, not an area without kayakers.
The CG needs to revisit the Colregs and make this clear. Just as they did when jet skiis appeared. If it were clear you wouldn’t constantly be telling us to “go check the colregs”. You’d just give us the answer. If it were clear.
in fact, kayaks are conspicuoulsy
absent from the colregs http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule18.htm. In my opinion, it is high time for the CG to revisit the colregs and make some of this (where kayaks fit in the grand scheme of things) clear. They did it before with jet skiis, they can do it again with kayaks. Before someone gets hurt.
And you will never change
those few a-holes, so it is best to give them all the right of way
cheers,
JackL
ok
I’ll take your word for it Salty, when you say that paddle craft are in the same class as powerboats when it comes to right of way. I have taken a few navigation classes back in my sailing days, but I wasn’t thinking as a kayaker back then. I’m surprised that kayaks are at the bottom of the right of way hierarchy, since they can’t go over 5 knots. Oh well.
Back to the rule of gross tonnage, anyways.
USCG Auxilliary
– Last Updated: Apr-20-10 9:32 PM EST –
Many are not Licensed Captains rather volunteers. Get what you pay for. Ask the CG directly and you WILL get your questions answered, though probably not to your liking.
You are correct that this stuff can apparently be confusing and in fact where I live one boating group was teaching Inland Rules yet we are under International Rules.
However, there's really no ambiguity here and these simple questions have clear answers, which you know already. Consult the REAL USCG and get the correct info.
I did provide the answer further down in this thread. The OP was not stand on for two reasons.
It's a clear choice of facts or bullshit. In the time it takes someone to read through this thread they could have accessed the USCG web site and figured it out, or phoned the CG directly and received the answers had any uncertainties about interpretation clarified.
Unlike you I see nothing in the Colregs that limits my safety or enjoyment on the water, or in any way limits me.
Many vessels are slow
Most smaller sailing vessels and a host of trawlers below 60 ft or so are in the 6 knot range @ cruise.
There you go!
No special treatments, rather employ courtesy and common sense based on prudent seamanship…which is the Rules as they stand. Hey, kayaks have the same rights as most power vessels! Just not special rights.
Rule 18
So, to be clear, I’m sure that as a ticketed captain, you’ve got more nav creds than I do. I’m just asking questions here to clarify my understanding, and other peoples.
Rule 18 (can be reviewed here: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule18.htm ) says who gives way to who. It basically sets the hierarchy as follows:
1. a vessel not under command;
2. a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
3. a vessel engaged in fishing;
4. a sailing vessel.
5. power-driven vessel underway
It seems to me that it’s unclear where kayaks fit. Are you saying that Colregs considers a Kayak a “power-driven vessel”?
That’s what I do 5-6 days a week!
Give-way to idiots who have no clue whether they be in a sailboat, powerboat or kayak. I’m supposed to accomodate idiots via Rule 1 and a USCG License. Discourtesy is equal opportunity, and kayakers as a group are no less discourteous and ignorant. Many are nice people, but ignorant and in some cases willfully rude secondary to some elitist thinking.
Again two choices:
- Choose to adopt wrong info that suits some elitist model of human poered vessels having special rights…
OR
- Learn and demonstrate good seamanship and become a competent Mariner.
Simple as that…
Traffic, all secure please check me out!!
I hope this is tongue in cheek! nm
Essentially yes,… just another vessel
– Last Updated: Apr-20-10 9:25 PM EST –
They don't differentiate between a kayak and a slow trawler for example. Kayakers may not like that, but it's the current law. Local CG folk fight this all the time where I live.
I know that goes against what many are taught to believe but NO, you do not have any special pecking order rights due to a "restriction".
A sailing vessel under limited power (engine) is likewise just another vessel with no rights and it aint much faster than your kayak. Under sail it is much more limited and thus has stand-on status ONLY over other "unrestricted vessels". BTW, a lot of sailors wrongfully believe they always have stand on rights! ONLY when rags are up and engine is OFF.
Think of yourself as a small sail boat under power.
This is a TOUGH thing to educate kayakers about because they just don't want to believe it, and as Bowrudder exemplifies, even when some finally get it, they want to re-write the Colregs!
JohnMcT , did you have to cross …
– Last Updated: Apr-20-10 9:34 PM EST –
....... a significant wake left by the power boater ??
How much room (distance) was there between you and the shore off your bow for the power boat when he crossed your bow ??
If you had stayed your course in the crossing and not altered yeilding way ... do believe the power boat would have still crossed your bow ??
Not inferring anything here with these questions as to either craft manuvering correctly or incorrectly , just wondering some things .
A couple thoughts occured to me though .
Perhaps the power boater thought it well for him to leave his wake on your bow as opposed to your stern .
And perhaps he thought it best to keep in your forward view as opposed to rear view .
Those two things coupled with his desire to cut the channel bend diag. to smooth it some , may have been factors .
There are other questions I wonder also , regarding what size power boat and speed involved ?? ... Did he make eye contact with you ?? Did either of you wave off ??
perfectly willing to believe
– Last Updated: Apr-20-10 9:33 PM EST –
I don't think you need to make out all paddlers as obstinate. I'm perfectly willing to believe it. I had a misunderstanding about the rules, and this thread has cleared it up.
Forgive me, and thanks for listening!