Still, I see that you have a very good reason for expressing your speed in knots, so you aren't one of the guys I was referring to. For the ones I am talking about, I wonder what motivates a person to use non-comparative units for speed and distance? I think it demonstrates a lack of any desire to put the information to practical use, and is a showy way of "being a sea kayaker" in inland regions where there are no nautical charts.
I wondered "why" these terms are used, and "whether" these terms are used need not be repeated since it's already the subject of my comment. Obviously it involves tradition, but I think on rivers (the setting of this topic) even the pros use "plain English", but I am not totally sure. Anyway, there are plenty of other occupations that have their own unique jargon, but unlike this stuff, you don't typically see that jargon finding its way into use by people who's lives don't revolve around the activity. It's not like I'm expecting someone to have the answer, it's more like I'm just thinking out loud and maybe someone can contribute something interesting.
...... as starboard and port , bow and stern just because it's a marine discussion and seems to show more respect for the topic ... other times I just say right or left or overthere in that direction .
Knots are just nautical miles ... I can go either way Knots or Statute Miles because I've used both means of route planning and the coorosponding instrumentation , charts and nav. tools .
why they’re used port and starboard are used instead of right and left because the mean different things. Right is a direction from me. My right hand is on the right. Starboard is a side of the boat. If I’m standing on the bow watching for lobster pots in the fog, and turn around to warn the skipper, it would be confusing to yell “buoy to the right” as I turn backwards - my right? skipper’s right? Saying “buoy to starboard” makes it clear, with no need for further elaboration.
I don’t know whether the navy uses “port” and “starboard”. I guess I’d be really surprised if they don’t - maybe someone here can fill us in. The Coasties have always used port and starboard in all my interactions with them.
“right” and "correct" When sailing, using “right” could lead to a lot of confusion. “I’m on the starboard tack” has a specific meaning, especially if you’re racing. “I’m on the right tack” could have more than one meaning – port tack could be the “right” tack for some situations.
A real life example of your point 2 summers ago, my better half and I were planning on paddling from Old Lyme, CT westward along the shore to take advantage of the tide.
This includes having to cross the mouth of the Connecticut River, which is a unique crossing. The river is about a mile or more wide at the mouth, and has shoals and sandbars in the middle and eastern side that are constantly moving, making nautical charts almost useless, especially at low tide. The one reliable channel (Man-made)is on the west side, and is very narrow. It also has LOTS of traffic in it on a nice summer day.
We paddled across towards the channel, and there were numerous power boats going all directions in the shallows because they were impatient, and didn’t want to wait to use the channel. I was already concerned at this point. By the time we reached the channel, we both said “F this, we’ll buck the tide all day & go east” - too many idiots here & we’ll never be able to cross the channel safely.
So, we headed east, and did about 18 miles against the current both ways. When we got back to the launch later in the afternoon, I pulled out my binocs, and it was even worse at the mouth than it was in the morning. And around that same time, a drunk powerboater fell overboard with his boat at full throttle in the shallows. Unfortunately, he was the only one aboard other than his dog, and the boat went careening out of control in the shallows, which were crowded with smaller craft. His boat rammed a small sailboat with 4 people aboard, and 2 of them were chopped up by the propeller. The boat kept on going until boating authorities were able to foul the prop with a rope, and regain control of the boat.
A number of the points you brought up were at work here:
Limited and narrow deep-draft channel
Way too much traffic for it
A large population of boaters with an attitude of entitlement
Lack of knowledge of the rules
Alcohol
It was a miracle that only 2 people died that day, IMO. And I’m used to paddling in those conditions.
From Wikipedia The origin of the term comes from early boating practices. Before ships had rudders on their centerlines, they were steered by use of a specialized steering oar. This oar was held by an oarsman located in the stern (back) of the ship. However, like most of the rest of society, there were many more right-handed sailors than left-handed sailors.
This meant that the steering oar (which had been broadened to provide better control) used to be affixed to the right side of the ship. The word starboard comes from Old English steorbord, literally meaning the side on which the ship is steered, descendant from the Old Norse words stýri meaning “rudder” (from the verb stýra, literally “being at the helm”, “having a hand in”) and borð meaning etymologically “board”, then the “side of a ship”.
Similarly, the term for the left side of the vessel, port or larboard, is derived from the practice of sailors mooring on the left side (i.e., the larboard or loading side) as to prevent the steering boards from being crushed. Because the words larboard and starboard sounded too similar to be easily distinguished, larboard was changed to port.
So the truth is finally out! Only those of us with rudders know the difference between port and starboard !
cheers,
JackL
PS: I have been watching this string with interest and keep wondering how many of the thousands and thousands of rec kayakers, hard core paddlers, and smaller power boaters give a crap about learning the COLREGS - the name of the game is use common sense and keep out of the way of the big guys.
“Power boats are at the top of the manuverabilty chain in my perspective and should yield way to lesser manuverable craft in all situations regardless of right of way .”
Once again, that is a typical paddler thought, but it’s not correct. Acting on that perspective, which probably most do, is what causes problems and potential danger.
Again, it’s a decision between knowledge and courtesy or doing whatever you feel because of an elitist or misguided philosophy.
The funny thing here is that kayakers have the same rights as other unrestricted vessels, but to many that just aint enough…
JackL if folk did that there’d be fewer issues. But, they don’t and they want to believe things that are wrong and potentially dangerous. The OP asked a valid question about a common interaction, and got helpful advice.
The problem with common sense is it aint common. Via private emails from some I gather this thread has had a lot of value and educated them.
If you for example do as you say and just keep out of the way there’s probably no reason to immerse yourself in the Colregs…I agree. That’s hugely better than employing wrong information on the water whilst interacting with other vessels.
should, but don’t I think some harbor communities could do a better job of helping educate the people who annoy them. The reality is that most weekend boaters – motor, paddle, or otherwise – don’t know the regs. Complaining that they should won’t change anything. So why not be proactive? A few simplified charts showing the major traffic lanes and illustrating the common rules, placed at the common launch sites, might actually make a difference.
A lot of the industrial safety work I’ve done has simply been eliminating the excuses for doing things wrong. “I didn’t know” is one of those excuses. Getting the information out where people can see it without having to look for it would be a good step.
Jackl I do try to avoid boat traffic. In this situation I was crossing at a narrow point in the river and at a bend where I had good vision up and down river. When I started the river crossing there was no traffic in sight but the powerboat appeared just as I entered the marked channel. In my opinion at the time I would have cleared the channel had he stayed on the same side as when he first appeared. The boater was evidently just straightening the curves but only he can answer that question. What I have gained from this, thanks to salty, is that a kayak is not classified the same as a sail boat under sail, and will need to follow the regs the same as any other craft without any special exemption.
John, my post was not meant for you. to me you did the exact same thing that I probably would have done.
My post was for the hundreds of paddlers who don’t have a clue what the COLREGS are and don’t care what they are.
I was in an occassion several years ago where a group of us were crossing a channel in Largo Sound, Florida and we saw a slow moving power boat in the distance.
We all assumed that it would be safe to cross, and did so, but then it became obvious that he was picking up speed. We all safely passed in front of him with plenty of room to spare, but that was not good enough for the a-hole. As he passed behind us, he yelled out that we had no business crossing the channel, and we should stay near shore where all kayakers belong. - Needless to say I would have had some choice words for him if he could have heard me above his motors.
All I was saying was that it takes all kinds, and we have to be aware of that.
...... was one of operating a power boat , how I approach a potential conflict when at the throtle .
If I'm paddling the canoe , I'm just as willing in regards to yielding way but more so because I'm in the canoe and would want to avoid making it nessasary for another craft to yield way to me .
You said , "Once again , that is a typical paddler thought but not correct" ... You may be correct , typical paddlers may believe other faster and larger vessals will probably yield way to them , I really don't know about that , but when paddling I know I wouldn't be thinking a conflict was going to end up with the other vessal yielding way to me ... although when operating a power boat I will yield way to a paddler and other lesser manuverable craft every time ... that's just me .
As stated and from my perspective ... the power boat "IS" at the top of the chain in manuverablity and it's just not a big deal to yield way if the other vessal seems to need or want it .
It just seems that when running a power boat I have the most manuverabilty as opposed to the other vessals mentioned , so when it comes down to it , it's a realitively easy manuver for me to yield way to lesser manuverable craft ... and I thought that there was some wording in boating rules I had read in the past that made specific mention of the most manuverable vessal having some responsibility to give way to the lesser manuverable vessal ... that's all .
There can be times when dragging the lines that I'd admit I'm not as willing to yield way to another vessal that "obviously" could have made another choice to not cross my bow in real close proximity and force me to drop throtle into neutral , but I would as well not take a tract that is obviously going to cut off anothers vessal course in close proximity either .
Just not sure what you were meaning salty , when you say "Not the way it is pilot" ... I get a sense that you may be meaning paddlers might be expecting the power boater to yield way , and not acually disagreeing that the power boat is the highest in the chain on manuverabilty ??
I agree that a small power vessel is highly maneuverable. AND in practicality they can turn arouns a slow kayaker with ease, as I would. BUT, and a big BUT it is, a kayaker shgould never ask that of a power boat who is otherwise stand-on. I yield t power vessels all the time while paddling and play by the Rules. It’s not hard and in no way dilutes my experience.
What do you think I have been doing? I dont bother to post much on P-net anymore but have extensively here, and will always offer advice on a Rules related thread because I am being “proactive”. Along with my criticism of kayakers not knowing the Rules comes numerous posts trying to educate and share accurate information.
But, guess what? It aint the responsibility of harbor authorities or others to educate kayakers! It’s YOUR responsibility! Accept that or become the norm. Again, it’s entirely up to each of us. The information is available.
"But, guess what? It aint the responsibility of harbor authorities or others to educate kayakers! It's YOUR responsibility! Accept that or become the norm. Again, it's entirely up to each of us. The information is available."
That's my point. Expecting the average recreational boater to educate themselves is unrealistic. That approach obviously hasn't worked for the past decade and there's no reason to expect it'll work in the future.
A few decades ago most harbor traffic was commercial, and you were dealing with professional mariners. Now the bulk of the traffic is recreational, and "responsibility" is the last thing most folks are thinking about on a nice weekend.
If we want to make a difference we need to make it as easy as possible for boaters to do the right thing. That may require some non-traditional approaches to boater education. The other approach is more regulation, which would be a hard sell.
I agree with you that people should be responsible. But my experience tells me it's not going to happen, and we need to try whatever it takes to make things better.
Fair enough. May be why some states are requiring a boater education card. I think that should stand for paddlers as well. Folk I know who are recreational power boaters seem to really learn a lot from this.