I used them for a while
and found they were best at scuffing the paint on the hood of my car. I wrapped part of the tie down with terry cloth which helped.
Everything fails at one point or another. What you want to do is realize the risk and try to minimize the risk with expending a disproportionate amount of effort.
The method with the least likely hood of failure is foam blocks with ropes across the kayak and rope tie downs. With that system the only mechanical failure is will happen at the crossbars on your roof rack.
How long is your boat?
If it’s a 6 foot white water boat, no bow and stern lines needed. I’ve got a 10.5 footer and a 14 footer. I tend to not use bow/stern lines on the shorter boat when traveling a couple miles. When going across town or longer trips, I’ll use bow/stern safety lines on both boats…only snug, not tight. 3 min. of extra time might save a life.
I do it a little different than most folks though.
The boats go on the car, deck down.
I use one long rope for each boat, starting from the trailer hitch, up to a half hitch around the whole stern, pulled the length of the boat, half hitch around the whole bow, then down to the factory tie down rings under the bumper (Toyota 4runner). A taughtline or truckers hitch each end, with a hook on the front loop for speed. Snug, not tight…basically take the slack out of the rope. I don’t trust the ‘carry handles’ on the front and rear of plastic kayaks…I’d rather loop around the entire bow/stern…and it’s quicker. After the first time you do this, your rope will be the perfect length for the boat and will only take 30 seconds to do again.
This method eliminates a rope per boat and makes bow/stern lines really quick, and arguably stronger. Use a good 3/8" nylon braid rope…it’s supple and lasts years.
I also made my own rack tiedowns from real 1" climbing webbing (.35 a foot and 2000 lb. strength) and sewing 5" loops on the ends. A truckers hitch knot instead of a metal cam buckle to cinch it down. I don’t like throwing metal buckles on the roof of my car and climbing webbing is way stronger/tougher than what comes with store bought tiedowns.
Learn your knots! You can eliminate a lot of hardware that way. You also don’t need crushing tightness on all those straps…snug so the load doesn’t shift and you’re good to go.
Four years of intense sea kayaking…
– Last Updated: Jul-08-07 8:41 AM EST –
..with 18 foot boats and plenty of long drives at 80 mph, and my answer to your question?
1. You don't need the tie-down lines. The straps will hold the kayak on the roof rack just fine.
Note:i use RATCHET straps, not hand pull straps. Love 'em/.
If that low-tension bow line, and others HAVE posted about this in the past on Pnet, for any reason comes undone from the boat while you drive, you will potentially have a major issue with the rope and buckle smashing your window, ruining the paint job on your hood or going under your vehicle where it could do plenty of damage (such as causing you to overreact when driving and causing an accident itself).
Using ratchet straps, yes, the crank ones that back_pakn despises above (I respectfully disagree with everything he posted), and tightneing them appropriately for the type of boat (more for plastic, less for my carbon kev boat) does it make any sense to not use the most secure strap type which is cam ratchet because "it might break your boat"? The boat owner controls the tightness. Why would I use a lesser hand tightened non-cam locked strap which cannot generate any tension just so I don;t become a ninny and overtighten my straps and harm my boat, and then add useless bow and stern straps just so I feel,better about my inferior strap job on top? Why not put on two over top ratchet straps for short sojourns, and three for longer travels, and be secure with it? That's what I do. The boat is so secure one could lift the vehicle by the boat if you had a hoist crane. There is no give, and the straps do not loosen unless there is faulty installtion of the cam ratchet, again, operator dependent. You hav eot know how to use them.
The only downside I have had for cam ratchets over the years is the cam itself must be positioned off the boat and the vehicle, so you have to play with it the first couple times to assure that the cam buckle does not marr finishes by touching/rubbing. Over the cockipt is one option, but there is usually enough room aside the hull and above the rack to accompdate the cam ratchet.
It never ceases…
to amaze me how many people hauling a long,light voluminous object, with a small pivot point,have never encountered a wind gust,or a passing tractor trailer,and have never seen their canoe /kayak whip from side to side. The side to side whipping is what causes rack/strap failure.Bow & stern lines are a safety against high speed wind uplift pressure,and side to side whipping that causes rack & strap failures. True most modern cars can be a real pain to find tie down points. There are ways to make Nylon hood loops that will work with any vehicle with a hood or trunk,and will hide away when not in use.Tie down lines can be just simple,cheap high strength 1/8- 1/4" nylon line with well tied knots.Most nylon line in that size will have a break strength of 80 + lbs.
It is my firm belief it is sheer lazyness, the misgiven attitude that “it will never happen to me or my rack system”,lack of disregard for safety of others and their own property,or the lack of not wanting to spend an additional 5 minutes at the put in, for people that don’t use bow & stern lines. Use them ,and be smarter.
Always uses bow & stern lines billinpa
Paddlecraft Tie Down
Generally, two cam lock buckles, used in conjunction with gunwale brackets or kayak cradles will keep your boat where it belongs when driving. Rachets are risky - too easy to get too much pressure and break the boat.
Longer boats and windy days suggest twin bow kines to eliminate yaw. A single bow line is ~ useless, the bow can still swing widely to either side. Two short cords to the corners of the car eliminates yaw potential.
The issue is the force of 75 mph winds generated by driving down the road. That is why we do not need stern lines - most cars won’t hit 70 in reverse.
And, it is easy to mount web attachment points on a Subaru. Just tie an 18 in piece of nylon webbing around the top radiator frame, leave it sticking out from under the hood. [Good pics on the placidboats web site.]
Yep
I consider bow & stern lines to be a social responsibility.
I have had racks come off a car once, and I know 4 other people that have had it happen as well. Most of us used bow & stern lines, and nothing really happened other than a little inconvenience and some scratched paint on the cars. One other, though, could have killed somebody. The rack and two NDK Explorers took flight off the car into the highway. Fortunately, nobody was hurt, and the boats landed rack first and skidded, and only needed semi-major repairs.
There was an incident in New York about 20 years ago at a tollbooth where a car carrying a windsurfer rearended another car, and the windsurfer shot off the racks into oncoming traffic and decapitated an innocent motorist. Now a windsurfer is much harder to secure than a kayak, but kayaks probably make better missiles.
It’s not always about your convenience.
Your call, but I only forgo the lines when I’m going to the lake down the street to paddle, and the speed limit is 25 mph. Even then, I’m real careful about how I drive.
You need them.
Not for your boats but for preventing your rack from detaching and impacting another car. It is a no brainer for the safety of other drivers. People who don’t use them when driving at freeway speeds are irresponsible in my view.
Don’t use the ratchet system. When the tie down goes slack either or both of the hooks can easily come out and make your tie down useless. Use good rope instead.
Subarus have tie down points already. There are two rings under the front and one ring under the back. So skip the business about adding something under the hood.
No real downside
I use webbing loops in the hood/fender gap as tiedown points, so there’s easy access and no hood contact. Similar loops are rigged on the rear of the car. The time and effort to add bow & stern lines is minimal, and the potential value is huge.
I will say that I drove with a pair of sea kayaks for years using only two web straps each, and never had a problem. But the idea of launching them at someone else on the highway makes me add the tiedowns for all but the shortest trips.
If I may relate a story
My kayaking buddy uses a Yakima system with the Landsharks on his car. He never, ever uses a bow/stern line and of course his front ratchet strap failed and the front end of the kayak came straight up in the wind. The effect of this was that the it put a huge dent in his trunk and bent the stern of his boat. He was very lucky because he instantly realized what happened and slammed on his brakes, causing his boat to fall straight back down…
I now use bow/stern lines ALL the time… and he still does not…
Rob
The thing is
like other people have said, it take about a minute a line, so why not do it?
My main worry is not my boats, but people in other cars being killed if something fails.
Good point about the tie downs helping you monitor the boats shifting too.
I guess this is a topic to be filed with wearing your PFD. 
what issues?
I’ve found the bow/ stern lines the easiest to use.
When I think of kayaking, I think of the ocean, which means driving 200 mi, usually over 70 mph and the Santa Anas always seem to be blowing I don’t have saddles at the moment.
If I go to the lake that’s ten minutes away, I don’t fuss as much with securing the yaks.
it is like wearing a PFD
I was riding with a friend who swore by bow and stern tie downs. The j-saddles he was using failed in a strong crosswind and the kayak blew off sideways. The bow and stern tied downs held the kayak along the side of the car and right into the grill of an oncoming car. I guess that is more of a rant against J-saddles than tie-downs.
The point is everything fails. I prefer non-mechanical parts because there are less points of failure.
As for the whitewater kayaks being blown off…
Most ww folks I know who lost their kayaks run a rope over the nose and tail of the kayak (not through the grab loop). The kayak gets blown off because the nose slides back under the rope. Tie downs would solve that problem, so would running the ropes under the grab loops.
Just a suggestion …
As opinions on this topic vary widely, might I suggest that you filter the responses by only considering the opinions of those who have actually had the “pleasure” of losing their load?
My take:
I’ve lost two loads in my lifetime …
I’ve never had a racheting tiedown loosen – ever. Use one for each rack.
If more than 1/4th of your boat length extends beyond the rack, bow and stern tiedowns are mandatory.
And by the way –
If you’re traveling great distances and/or at high speed, throw on a third “safety” racheting tiedown.
assuming people learn from their mistake
but their are plenty of folks who don’t use tie downs and who have never lost a kayak off the roof.
So do we take advice from people who have lost kayaks off the roof, or from people who have managed to keep their kayaks where they want them?
it take about a minute a line, so why…
– Last Updated: Jul-08-07 2:16 PM EST –
...not do it?
A: for the reasons noted above, that it does not help secure the kayak as much as one would think (unless dual lines tied to each side of vehicle, as one astute poster mentioned), and that it is potentially dangerous in and of itself.
rebrumley, as to your friend's story, he needs to a) learn how to use ratchet straps so they don't fail, and b) at highways speeds use two ratchet straps up front *three total, tow front, one rear of boat).
tiedowns
highways–yes
local backroads-nope
Never leave without them
We have an aftermarket “heavy duty” rack installed by the “pro” installer that sells these wonderful heavy duty racks at a dealership. Well guess what … he used a few sheet metal screws !!! So, if your rack isn’t held down thru the metal with bolts secured on the inside - there is very little strength and I for one wouldn’t trust my boats (weight plus wind resistance) to a few flimsy sheet metal screws. Do you know specifically how your racks are attached? If not - they are not safe - for you or for the others driving on the road near you. I use them each and every time I go anywhere - short or long distance.
Forgot to mention
We often put 4- 16-17 ft kayaks on our roof racks on j cradles and a stacker in the middle and secure them also with belly straps. In addition we use 2 bow lines and 2 stern lines for the 4 boats. Each set of two are joined thru the toggles together. This works well but would prefer a better attachment point on the boats. It takes us awhile to get going doing all this preparation, but this way, we know we are good to go!
Always use them.
– Last Updated: Jul-08-07 4:23 PM EST –
Just look at your own list. 3 reasons to use bow/stern tie downs and one not.
Consider the force a long boat places on the load bars that are only 2 or 3 feet apart. The tie downs relieve the rack of having to resist all of the lifting force your boat generates. They greatly reduce the chance of rack failure, minimize the impact if a failure does occur and are your last line of defense in a collision. The tie downs protect you, your boat and other people on the road. Why is there a debate? Yes, they take a little extra time to use; so do PFDs and seat belts.
I can't fathom CoolDoctor's assertion that bow/stern tie-downs are a danger to ones self. In the even of a rope snapping, it would drift in the wind. Big deal.
Straps generally make lousy bow/stern tie downs because they buzz and vibrate no matter how much you twist them or tighten. Simple ropes cut through the wind better and are easy to stow. If you don't want to take the time to tie a couple half-hitch knots, Google "Rope Ratchet" and buy four of them.
If your ropes are scuffing paint where they make contact, thread each one through a length of PVC or rubber hose of an appropriate length and diameter to protect wherever there is body contact. If you lack good tie down spots on your vehicle (as is my case in the front), you can make or buy simple web strap loops you can bolt to the body. Most cars are full of small holes in the the frame and bodywork under the hood where a hook can be attached or loop bolted in place.
In my case, I have a pair of loops under the hood that I just pull up out of the hood/fender seam whenever I need them.
You might drive for decades without bow/stern tie-downs and never have a problem. Or it might happen in the first 10 miles. Why risk it?
Phreon
Thank You.
Phreon,well said. The second paragraph of my first post on the subject,says it all.
Happy Paddling billinpa