They tow RV trailers with these straps. They hold up standing 2000 lb Harleys on trailers with these straps. Wider versions are used by flatbed semi-truck drivers who log thousands of miles transporting everything from windmills to factory-sized generators.
The arguments to not use them and instead use rope and a bow/stern line --"I know how to tie a rope, so why not just tie one", "I might get silly and overtighten the ratchet and hurt my own kayak", "I don't know how to properly use a ratchet strap so it might come off", "What if the entire rack on the top of my vehicle comes off"-- are patently ridiculous. There will be no side wind twist when a boat is properly secured with ratchet straps; you would turn the entire vehicle by the boat before the strap itself would fail.
The are the fastest and most foolproof means to secure any load on any rack or trailer. Highly recommended.
Its not about good straps Cooldoc, If you read the previous posts about flying boats you will realise that its generally not the straps that fails, it’s the attachment points of the rack or crossbars that fail. In which case any number of high quality straps would not help (unless you run them through the windows). With the use of tie-downs you minimize the risk of having your rack come loose. And if it does come loose, you minimize the damage (of boats and cars) and potential injuries of others.
It does add one minute of work on your behalf though.
uhhh, Doc… Nobody’s stating that ratchet straps are inherently weak. The real possible problems have been stated above.
What your single-minded assurances forget is that you could very well use those heavy-duty-semi-truck-ratchet-binders and still have your load lost IF you have a rack failure.
Do I use bow and stern lines every time I load a boat? - nope. Do I feel better when I do? - yup. Do I think it’s irresponsible of one to insist they’re totally useless to a new boater seeking solid info? - yup again…
On a lighter note… Skip the tiedowns altogether. Just do like I see a lot of clueless people who buy mattresses. Take three people with, roll down the windows and each one grab on to the gunwale. I saw two guys hauling a foosball table like that one day.
Travelling without proper racks, checked often for safety, is an issue in itself. Having a rack completely fail and fly off the vehicle (as opposed to simply loosening) is hugely unlikely, and having a bow line will likely cause a major accident unto itself with flailing rack and boat dragging alongside the car. A poster above mentions inferior screws in his rack; fix the rack! The above posters who mention kayaks flipping up and flying around are talking strap or rope failure.
Definitely, not only get the right straps for the job, but also the appropriate rack checked often for safety. We are not talking about strapping 300 lbs of luggage on a roof rack here… a proper and working rack system fora boat is not rocket science.
Fix what rack? I referred to the small screws holding the rack onto the vehicle. That was in reference to factory racks. If youve ever looked at how many racks are held to the roof, you would not trust them. Most are held to the roof with just a few smallish sheetmetal screws screwed through thin roof sheetmetal. Ive seen factory roof racks seperate from the roof on a couple of occations You get alot of weight up there, bouncing or blowing around and it doesnt take much to pull a few sheetmetal screws out.
Aftermarket companies use factory rack bars as the basis of their mounting systems. I believe this is generally the weak point of the system.
Thats why I use bow/stern tiedowns, to take the strain off the factory rack. I use a gutter mount rack most of the time which I have much more confidence in. I dont always use bow/stern tiedowns when using the gutter mount. I have much less concern about my straps breaking or my Thule rack coming apart than I do my factory roof rack pulling off the roof.
Hood Loops, Bow Lines, Ratchets For folks who are concerned with either not having a place to tie the bowline or the bowline scratching/scuffing the hood paint, here’s an option:
Oak Orchard makes these Hood Loop things…$10 a pair. They bolt inside the engine compartment and peek through the gap between the hood and the fenders once the hood is closed. Once tension is put on them from a bowline overhead, there is almost no contact between the straps and the hood or any painted surface. When not in use they just flip/fold down under the hood. If you don’t want to spend the $10 you can use some extra strapping and do-it-yourself, just make sure the straps aren’t so long as to interfere with fan blades, belts, other moving parts under the hood.
I have ratcheting bow line straps, the same ones that come with a Thule Glide and Set saddle kit. When I use mine, I pull them as tight as I think they should go and put a knot under the ratchet to keep any slack from forming. If it’s an extended trip, I use a couple of zip ties to tie up any extra line and keep it from flapping in the wind.
Wow! : ) I guess there are a lot of opinions out there, aren’t there? Here’s a bulk “thank you” to everyone who took the time to reply. I’ve read them all twice, and will probably do so again before all is said and done.
Once I get everything I need so that I’m happy with the configuration, I’ll use the lines everytime. My shortest drive to the water is about 10 miles, and 50 mph is involved regardless of where/how I go. All that really matters is that I don’t want to chance hurting anyone. Boats and cars can be replaced.
To answer a couple of the questions asked…
The kayak is a 14 footer.
And no, I don’t know how to tie knots, but a good friend of mine who used to own a marina will remedy that.
The issue I have with the bow lines is that if I choose to use the Thule 855 Quick Draw lines and webbing loops they provided, the rachets hang too low and are in my line of sight while driving. That bothers me. I’d prefer them to be higher, so I’d need to get smaller webbing loops or something of the sort. If I just used lines and learned how tie them off properly, that problem would go away I guess.
I was a little concerned about having the lines run up under my bumper, but as someone mentioned here, a friend of mine recommended using rubber hose to protect it. Interestingly, when I hooked them up again to take the pictures, I noticed there were “channels” in the bumper that seemed strategically placed for the rope to rest in. I assume that’s by design, but I’m not sure how much it helps.
The hood loops would solve any concerns there, so I’ll consider them also. They seem like a really good idea.
what sucks about that What sucks about your setup is the bow lines rubbing on the hood. It wont cause big problems but it will mar the finish over time.
Im not trying to talk you out of using bow lines, I just letting you know what you can expect. Dont be concerned about the buckles or lines obstructing your view, you get used to that real quick.
Better to fix the racks, clearly.
Posted by: cooldoctor1 on Jul-08-07 2:46 PM (EST)
Traveling without proper racks, checked often for safety, is an issue in itself. Having a rack completely fail and fly off the vehicle (as opposed to simply loosening) is hugely unlikely, and having a bow line will likely cause a major accident unto itself with flailing rack and boat dragging alongside the car. A poster above mentions inferior screws in his rack; fix the rack! The above posters who mention kayaks flipping up and flying around are talking strap or rope failure.
There are two forces that must be controlled to safely car-top a boat. 1) The static weight of the boat and 2) dynamic lift (and turbulence). The rack's primary purpose is to bear weight; lift and torsion are secondary.
You'll notice that the landing pads on most modern racks are rather large (good load bearing ability) but the clips, usually because of design constraints, have a rather small contact patch. Sure, you don't need tie downs for skis, small hard carriers, etc., but these have a relatively small wind load and do not present the (lever) moment a 17 foot kayak will. This is why spending 5 minutes on Thule or Yakima's web-sites reveal explicit warnings *to always use stern and bow tie downs when carrying boats*. The ACA and most boat manufacturers concur as well.
If you use bow/stern tie downs properly, no single or possibly double failure will leave you with a boat dragging next to the car. You should always use SIX attachment points (left corner, bow, right corner times two [front and rear]). You could lose BOTH rack straps or have the entire rack system come apart and still have the boat on the top of the car.
Definitely, not only get the right straps for the job, but also the appropriate rack checked often for safety. We are not talking about strapping 300 lbs of luggage on a roof rack here... a proper and working rack system for a boat is not rocket science.
You can argue that the roof rack should be solid enough to deal with all forces, but the real world isn't perfect and it's much easier to use a couple of ropes on the ends of my boat than have steel I-beams welded to to top of my car.
You might have a case if you're car-topping a one or two short playboats, but most people use J-cradles or some kind of stacker that puts the boats on their side, which presents a pretty large side wind load. Even in this case, a couple of rope ratchets make using bow/stern lines so easy it's almost criminal not to
The short of all this is that there's no conceivable instance where applying correct bow/stern tie downs is more likely to cause problems than not. Racks fail, straps break and single points of failure are a BAD THING (TM). The only argument not to use them is one of sheer laziness.
sheet metal screws Aftermarket racks like ours are put on by sheet metal screws because it is the easy and quick way to do it cost effectively and thats the way the supposed pros do it as it is not “their” vehicle. We found out afterwards or else we would have insisted it done the right way. A poster says then “fix it”. Not an easy fix - in my case the van would have to be ripped apart from above - removing all the cosmetic material and all the attachments etc in the ceiling panels and see it you can use nuts/bolts and washers to go thru the metal without disturbing a/c vents etc. so…not so easy. That is why it is wise to use the bow and stern lines also. I wonder how many people know how those racks are attached !! By the way, we are in the process out outfitting a trailer to use and love the ideas from I believe Redmond that has posted his wonderful creations.
("There are two forces that must be controlled to safely car-top a boat. 1) The static weight of the boat and 2) dynamic lift (and turbulence). The rack's primary purpose is to bear weight; lift and torsion are secondary.
You'll notice that the landing pads on most modern racks are rather large (good load bearing ability) but the clips, usually because of design constraints, have a rather small contact patch.")
I agree with this statement, which is why the only rack system I trust without bow/stern ties is a good gutter mount system.
It’s a Subaru I use the same hole under the car, one on each side by the lights. I use a long line and pass thru from one side to the other and back up to the straps on the kayak or canoe. It is a pain in the butt to do this since you have to feel for the holes or lay down and look under. There are a lot of horse an buggies by me so I have since stopped feeling around under the Baja. I now use the two straps you can buy with a grommet on one end and bolt it under the hood on the side. It is sturdy and easier on the eyes. And best of all no more horsecrap on my fingers. Hope this helps.
It's worth noting that I used existing under hood holes for my loops and there are plastic washers between the metal washers and the body. I sewed the loops together for strength, melted the bolt hole in place with a glowing hot bolt (which yields a stronger melted together hole) and filled it in with leftover grommets I had from an old project.
Also note that the rope ratchets are not simple pullies. They grip the rope solid and have a one way (releasable) ratchet action. Hook, pull, zip -- you're done.
I like your setup I do have a couple of questions - the plastic washer - is this to help the metal washer from fraying the strap or heat reasons or to raise it up a little for the strap to keep away from the body of the vehicle? Can heat cause any problems with damaging the strap. Also we bent with a vise grip the hook on our ratchets (thule and yakima’s) a little inward for security but wondered if you are comparing the 2 or use both - one at the bow and one at the stern?
