I don’t want pictures of that.
Serious question
First, I use bow and stern lines religiously. My question is this. In the event of an accident, where the rack is compromised, would straps/ropes/carabiners etc. actually hold or would they snap,seems like a lot of force, and to insure against this what is the recommended material for tie downs.
My current system (waiting for Top Ties to ship) on my Toyota Matrix is: bow;heavy cord (excess from hoist system)secured around from thwart, then two separate ratchet ties, from Lowes, hammered down ala TexasLady,attached to heavy cord with carabiner, and attached with “S” hook end to tow holes under car. this is where I will add the Top Ties.
Stern; two loops of webbing 3/4 “each attached to the inside of hatchback(my car has kind of d-rings for net storage)attached at the bottom sides of car just below the tail lights, hatchback shuts over these. I then have a spring buckle type web strap 1” that loops thru these flat straps then attaches to the heavy cord looped thru the last thwart. Of course there are two yakima spring buckle straps on the top of rack.
Once when I was traveling from Corpus Christi to Houston, I was hit by a crosswind from the leading edge of a front, and I swear I worried that the sea yak and the car were going to go rolling like a tumbleweed across the adjacent pasture land. I knew it was going to be bad when the 18 wheeler in front of me wobbled badly and immediately pulled off the hiway, I followed him. When I got home I could see where the rack dug into the paint. Scary!
Leigh
oh come on
I’ll use blue shrink wrap just for you.
Layer of safety
They add an element of additional protection, that’s it.
My cousin moved across the country a couple months ago. Somewhere in the middle he experienced some very heavy winds which actually broke the properly-installed, two-year-old Thule J cradle on a properly-installed, two-year-old Thule roof rack. Prudently, he always uses front and rear tie-downs, which probably saved him from disaster.
Put the shrink wrap on yourself,
then I’ll want a picture. Not interested in shrink wrap on your boat, unless you’re shipping it to me.
I would add that if it gets to the point
where straps, ropes, hardware, etc. starts failing, you’ve got way bigger problems than a boat coming loose.
trucker’s hitch
The best thing about starting to use a front tie-down with my sea kayak is that it got me finally to learn how to tie a trucker’s hitch in the rope I used. (None of that racheting stuff with little metal hooks for me, no sir-ee-bob! And I’ve got a proper metal bumper too!)
Cheers,
GT in NC
Bow/Stern tie down points
In all this discussion, I did not see anyone comment on the actual connect point on the kayak bow and stern. For me it would have to be the kayak carrying handles and to me these will fail immmediately under any stress from the force of a rack failing. Has anyone added a bow/stern tie down on the kayak itself that would be better than the handles?
Tom
The bow…
and stern line and the carry handles should be strength tested to at least hold the weight of the boat. Obviously some people carry their boats with them,or drag the weight plus gear with them, emptied swamped boat with them,use as rescue grips,etc. I most cases I believe the carry handles have more tensil strength then the weight of the boat. However the attach point may or may not be the strongest link.
From my exerience with lines I use the smallest diameter rope that carries a tensile strength of twice the boat weight. A 1/8" diameter rope carries a tensile strength of aproximatly 90 lbs,3/16" about 115lbs. A 1" wide nylon strap type tie down is almost capable of towing a small car in strength.
In my experience the bow and stern lines help against lift of the boat from driving speed winds,or gust winds generated by trucks,or crosswinds. It relieves the extra stresses on the rack mounts and straps helping avoid rack release or failure.Like someone mentioned you can see if there is a problem by the tension on the lines. In some rare cases it may also help hold up against a dislodged rack,or a loose rack,and like all above agree add the extra measure of safety.
I don’t think bow & stern line make much difference when it comes to a head on, or rear end collisions,due to forces exceeding rack,ties,vehicle,or boat attach point strengths for the excessive inertia forces generated by impact. However they may act as a retarder of the forces that caused the release to slow down the ejection. However I am not willing to try that theory with my car or boats,are you?
Just for my piece of mind I use them,and the 10 minutes it takes to put them on may save me or someone else damage or injury.
billinpa
not to belabor this worn out thread, but
Bill, what does the static weight of the boat have to do with the strength of the line used to secure it to a roof?
I would think almost nothing. But I’m not an engineer either.
You would
– Last Updated: Jun-25-09 4:46 PM EST –
want the line to carry the weight of the boat plus any wind forces generated. Hence twice the weight of the boat. Years ago I read that somewhere and am just coveying it as I remember. Common sense would tell me if the rack released and the weight of the boat,and wind forces are pulling on the lines you would want the lines to be able to carry the weight of the boat,rack,and wind forces until you slow down. Otherwise use sewing thread for lines,Hummmm?
billinpa
freaking engineers
We’ll all be using 2# cable once the engineers get involved (just pulling your chain, I’m an engineer wannabe).
I guess what I’m getting at is
… mason line is like 200++lb test. But I sure wouldn’t use it to secure a 65 pound boat.
Dynamic loads far exceed static loads
– Last Updated: Jun-25-09 5:51 PM EST –
Ah' too had some fizziks in reform school.
Fer example... iffin' me sweetie pie - Miss Crabtree waar ta find me spoonin' wit o' let's say... Emma Peel - if her fist waar just restin' on me nose it would exert a force... o' lets say 1 PSI. Now, iffin' she'd haul back an' really land a round-house punch on me schnoz ah' wood reckon it'll be at least a couple hundred PSI an' one busted proboscis. Tough dame dat Miss Crabtree.
Wat in tar-nation be ah' jabberin' about???
Oh yeah, a movin' (relative ta a stationary object. ie. mounting point, rope, strap, rack, car, etc.) 50lb. boat is gonna exert a much greater force (inertia) than would a static or stationary oobject (ie. boat).
FE
Short and wide?
Bow and stern lines are considered a good idea but aren’t absolutely necessary. It depends on the boat and how secure the main tiedowns are. For shorter boats you can usually just tie the endloops back to the rack bars for some extra security.
But wat if de rack fails?
– Last Updated: Jun-25-09 6:02 PM EST –
Dat yer jus' tied onto???
FE
96 Sienna ???
I believe 98 was the first year the Sienna was made.
I had a 98 and there are towing hooks underneath the vehicle that work for tied downs. I cant remember but they are not symmetric front and back …one in the front I believe, two in the back.
If your boat is longer than about 11 ft. I would do front and rear tie downs.
CD pachena "in flight"
See the December, 2006 review of the Pachena by Current Designs. A quality rack failed, and the kayak went airborne on the highway. Systems fail, that is why a backup is necessary.
"Layers of Safety"
Up-a-creek hit the nail on the head. Some folks are belt folks. Some are suspender folks. And some are belt-and-suspender folks, just to be sure.
I am involved in industrial safety at work. One thing I was taught, and firmly believe in, is that individuals can become habitualized at performing a job in an unsafe manner - as long as there are no negative consequences. So it is best to habitualize that individual with SAFE techniques so that if and when the feces hits the ventilator at least he or she is acting safely.
Only a handful in this thread have witnessed an airborn boat. I have. And I have seen the results of several other flights. As such, I do not wish to experience any more.
Jim
Belt & suspenders guy.
LONG LIVE THIS THREAD!!!
a classic pnet review
it was 12-26-05 by dlinnane for the Pachena - and worth reading again.