Does anyone have advice on bracing ??? is it able to be done with a Pamlico 140 ???

Bracing Can Be Done

– Last Updated: Mar-09-06 6:03 PM EST –

with any boat that that you have good contact with through the seat, hip area and thighs/knees. Without that contact, even if you make the right hip/torso correction to right a boat on its edge, the motion can't get transferred or is not transferred effectively to the boat.


Eric Jackson’s DVD
I didn’t know squat about bracing 'til I bought “EJ’s Rolling and Bracing”. or is that bracing and rolling?

I don’t entirely agree that you need knee/thigh contact to brace effectively. Surfskis brace up just fine with butt, hip, and sometimes a heel, although you’re generally not going to recover from as far over as you would with knee/thigh contact because you start falling out of the boat (or having it pulled out from under you).

Don’t Disagree
heck, in my waveski, my contact is my butt, seat belt and footstrap.

Since he is asking about his own boat, the issue is whether he has good enough contact. The Pamlico 140 is certainly not the open Pamlico 145T kayak that I had. Possibly, he is big enough to have good enough contact with the boat. I don’t know. If he “fits” like I did with the Pamlico 145T, forgetaboutit! :slight_smile:


There’s also the “why” issue
Even if you can sort of get an idea of what bracing feels like, it’s going to be pretty tough to anywhere with learning to do it instinctively in a boat that wide.

Bracing is…
basically slapping the paddle on the water to keep yourself from flipping over (low brace.) You can brace in any boat…heck, you could brace if you’re paddling a bathtub. It’s more effective with better boat contact, but basically you’re just reaching out with the paddle and “bracing” yourself on the water to keep from flipping.

Bracing can be effective in a pamlico

– Last Updated: Mar-12-06 12:10 PM EST –

but really it's like trying to learn to race wiht a yugo. The techniques are the same but the interface, (boat contact)feedback and response are really not the best for learning advanced techniques. It's one thing to get support from a paddle, it's another to be in a situation where you would have fallen over despite your best J lean, if not for the brace. In short,if you are seeking to learn more advanced techniques, consider a more performance oriented boat. I love my pamlico for what I use it for.

Peter K (whose daughter once reached way over the side of the pamlico. Scared me to death. (and yes, a brace did help but the force too the boat was transmitted by my cheek opposite the brace instead of by my knee and thigh on the side of the brace pulling the boat under me.)

This is getting silly
To Palmlico - when are you going to take a lesson? That is when you will find out the kinds of things you have been asking. I fear that the next question will be about your thigh braces and fit - and that is absolutely what you should be checking out sitting in your boat and trying to work with it on the water.

As above, your boat was designed to have fairly limited capacity for a lot of the manuvers that you have apparently been reading up on. It’s not a knock on the boat. But while anyone can do just about anything with a given boat if they are willing to work hard enough at it, a boat’s design can make a given activity impractically hard or much easier. The only way you are going to really find out is to get into the boat in a lesson environment and start trying this stuff.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I am intrigued enough that I have to ask - how old are you?

Not quite
"…basically slapping the paddle on the water to keep yourself from flipping over (low brace.)"

That is not the definition of a low brace. The difference between a low brace and a high brace is strictly the position of the wrist and elbows in relation to the paddle shaft.

If they are higher than the shaft, it is a low brace. If the shaft is above the wrist and elbow, it is a high brace.

Then too, the low brace uses the back side of the blade and the high brace uses the power face of the blade.

take a lesson
one of the six degrees of freedom is ‘roll’.

you control ‘roll’ by:

hull width (boat stability)

paddle blade (brace)

body posture (balance)

the ol’ boat-blade-body

depending on your boat design, paddle articulation and balance you will be able to control the roll plane. bracing is just a tool.


I Betcha …
Pamlico140 has a different boat before the summer’s over. Longer and skinnier.

He’s been posting here a lot. This guy’s hooked.

the whole system
> “the ol’ boat-blade-body”

not necessarily in that order;-)

I do wonder sometimes if I’m not doing myself any favors practicing a lot of braces on flat water. It’s fun but how different is it when the brace is in reaction to a dynamic surface?

Guess I need to get out on some real water this year.

just say no to the high brace
controversial as it may sound this is my stance now…too many friends (whitewater types) and too many stories of shoulder damage…so after many classes in greenland stuff I now believe that it is better to simply capsize letting the water take the shock/energy then simply scull for support or roll up and now damage to the shoulder.

it’s like
practice having sex…

tough to fake it.


Just say no to surf and whitewater
Don’t plan to spend much time in whitewater or surfing.

Hey Pamlico … while you stoking on

– Last Updated: Mar-11-06 3:08 AM EST –

kayaking so much.

Have you thought about taking a whiteater class this summer? Save up some bucks. Maybe do it together with your dad. I think it would be a good idea to get some instruction and some skills. I suspect you will get a little board just lillydipping on the lakes. Most young guys want a little more excitement once they get out on the water. You likely will end up with different boats for lakes and rivers. The moving river class will teach you good skills and how to deal with capsizes and swims.

I remember there were several good outfitters that take Kayakers on the Cache La Poudre River and there is a whitewater park at the mouth of Boulder Canyon in Boulder. I know there is also another group near Aspen, a friend of mine was an instructor with them, but I have lost contact with him, I moved in 1997. I imagine there are also similar groups in Denver area for the south platte.

Companies like this ...for Ft. Collins area ....

Teach a weekend whitewater class for about $200; you might want to first take a rolling class in a whitewater boat, often they do youth classes so you could meet some other folks your age to paddle with under adult supervision.

Let me see if I can get a hold of my friend and he may be able to reccomend a cheaper alternative to getting you some training. I seem to remember the Y in Boulder or Westiminster had summer whitewater classes.

Lesson options

– Last Updated: Mar-12-06 11:53 AM EST –

Nice work on trying to find lesson options out there. I am increasingly thinking that we are talking to/about someone under the age of 18, which would have a major impact on the ability to travel to and/or pay for lessons, especially since no response to my question about age. On the flip side, it does seem that Palmlico needs very much to find a well supervised way to get himself into a boat that is actually on the water.

Don’t give up
I have no clue how you fit in your kayak, but if that’s what you are using, then that’s what you should at least try in to start with. You bought THAT kayak for a reason, and you might as well begin learning in it.

Some suggestions:

Pulse CSU to find out if they have any community-oriented lessons. Sometimes universities have evening or weekend “college light” classes in things like paddling.

Also, pulse Ft. Collins for a rec center, as sometimes those have pool instruction.

In Golden, an REI contractor called RMOC can get you started in the rec center pool and, when spring arrives, also get you paddling on flat water. They have WW lessons also, but I assume you want to learn flat water. I remember that they were very reasonably priced: something like $90 for a pool session followed by an all-day outdoor session; this includes equipment. I took an intro WW lesson from them and thought the instructor was good.

Personally, if I planned to pay $150-300 for a more in-depth “sea kayaking” lesson (I have done this) I’d go somewhere on the coast rather than pay anyone in CO. There is so much disdain towards flatwater paddling here that I just don’t want to give my money to hear attitude. Besides, on the coast, your lessons may include a chance to paddle in gentle swells and waves. The coastal locations will also have a much better selection of sea kayaks for you to demo while you’re there.

Pick up a copy of the Rocky Mountain Sports tabloid (a free monthly) and check their Paddlesport listings. Now that spring is around the corner, there will be quite a few listings, though many of them will be the same providers–just different dates of lessons.

If you ever get down to the Denver-area reservoirs, I’d be willing to teach you the low brace (for free, of course–I’m not an instructor). Just drop me an e-mail in advance. The one caveat I have on this is that I would want to wait till the water warms up a lot more. I don’t know what kind of paddling clothing you use and there is some risk of capsizing while learning to brace!