British Boats: Who Likes Them & Why????

Yes, but how about this?
I know British boats are tough. I also know those who push the envelope in them eventually have no small number of gel and glass repairs needed too. Just for grins, take a look at how some “fragile” SOF boats proved tougher than you might think.



http://www.capefalconkayak.com/tempphotos.html



Since nobody mentioned which NA boats they were referring to when they were making comparisons, I cannot comment on them, but I do believe there are some very capable boats made in NA which are not Brit syle boats and they have been made for many years. Some of the more interesting designs are being produced by the wood and SOF folks. The Night Heron, Petrel, Outer Island, and Ginnyak for example. These are modern and technically advanced boats with performance equal to any. Don’t miss any opportunity to paddle a Night Heron, Petrel, Outer Island or a Laughing Loon Baidarka style boat for example. You may find the experience illuminating.



http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Building/Guillemot/NightHeron/PTPlans.html



I suppose I have paddled more Brit boats than any others and it amazes me how people lump them together. They are as a group made tough no doubt about that and all seaworthy too. However, on the water the Pintail, the Sirius, and the Romany are very different boats. So its not like they are all the same or likely to appeal to the same paddler for the same use. Speaking of Brit boats, in TITS2 someone uses what I assume is a Brit boat in the Bitches segment with a very high, peaked foredeck covered with stars, a huge cockpit, and a sharp clipper bow. Anyone know what boat that is?



As to whether I like my boats, of course I do. I think they are great. Just like everyone else does for theirs. Either due to having bought a boat that suits me or cognitive dissonance. All that counts is we can do what we want and dream of doing in them and they feel right to us. Horses for courses.

peaked foredeck covered with stars
That’s a Rockpool kayak

wow, that’s really splitting hairs…

– Last Updated: Jan-17-06 10:08 AM EST –

Who cares if the builder isn't Greenlandic? That doesn't define the boat in any way.

I don't know what you mean about pinched ends but there have been some swede form Greenland qajaqs (and lots of swede for baidarkas) and obviously those qajaqs were also not widest at the masik. Also the three arm span is a suggestion rather than a rule as people build longer qajaqs for racing and shorter ones for rolling.

I'm not sure why you are so keen to not label your qajaq as Greenland style but that's your choice I guess.

Qajaq?
Alex wrote: “I don’t know how strict we need to get in regards to determining what Greenland style kayaks really are as there seems to be a really wide range in designs from various parts of Greenland and its nearby islands. Being accepted into the Greenlandic class seems more to do with the kayak construction materials rather than design.”



The Greenland judges are very demanding that both the construction and design meets that of current, and also to a large degree, historic Greenland designs. A “qajaq” refers only to a Greenlandic kayak. There is a lot of variation but it is sometimes difficult for a non-Greenlander to understand what can be changed and what cannot to pass with the judges. Some kayaks have hightly pinced bows, some have full bows, etc.



I saw the judges throw out a kayak built by a Greenlander because they didn’t like the deckline arrangement. The builder argued that the decklines were of the style always used in his village.



The Greenlanders have a very difficult job to balance tradition while still allowing for new innovations. Kayaks have never been static in Greenland and have always been changing and evolving to meet local needs.



That said, Greenlanders are incredibly strict about what constitutes a qajaq. Although the chief judge did say that the Valkyrie had the lines of a qajaq, it wouldn’t be allowed in the Greenlandic class due to construction. That said, few of the SOF kayaks built in America would pass in Greenland. It doesn’t mean that they are bad kayaks, a beautifully built Baidarka wouldn’t pass either. It simply means that they are different in some subtle ways from what is subjectively considered a qajaq in Greenland.



Actually all kayaks would fail that are built in this country since they don’t have sealskin decklines.



Greg Stamer

More interesting than the Brit blather!
Great boats, in all the ways the posters say, yadda, yadda, yadda.



Anyone can BUY a boat! L



Just saw an opening wandering off on a side discussion with one of the more interesting people at an otherwise boring party… :wink:

Seal skin decklines
Well, maybe not - but the leather belt material you recommend from McMASTER-CARR is great. Sort of a funny pinkish color dry - but looks great wet - which is all that matters. Thanks for the tip!

So, my North American boat has all that
Except the day hatch which I think is useless. Stereotypes, stereotypes, stereotypes. Aren’t pep rallies wonderful! :slight_smile: Although I do have the advantage of a better layup with better glass cloth which doesn’t require so much resin to make it strong enough and hence doesn’t weigh two tons.

Keep in mind, we have a very
diverse fleet here at the Dogmatycus household. Lots of little brits, Canadians, Germans and Americans running around. If your BT profile is accurate, you have an Eddyline. Nice boats and they are thick up here. Their outfitting is very attentive to details (other than their typical ABS bulkheads glued in). I don’t know what their outside hull to deck seam is made of, either, do you? The compass recess isn’t exactly revolutionary to the way we paddle, but since I keep the spare blades up front they wouldn’t get in the way of the flat plate area EL uses. As far as the day hatches are concerned, I much prefer them to the boats I have unequipped with them, but that’s a preference and most people can order one without, if they preferred. You are right, I was being stereotypical of the commonality of safety design criteria of typical brit boats of recent vintage, because the last several years of them can be stereotypical in their outfitting. ; )



Augustus Dogmatycus

MMVI

link
www.rockpoolkayaks.com



Watch the videos, they are pretty cool.



AD

MMVI

And I was being provocative
I am sure British designed and built boats are fine boats. The ones I have tried did not particularly impress me although I did not think they were bad. I know the construction, at least of older brit boats, was unnecessarily heavy because they used cheaper fiber glass that did not have as high a “thread count” and required thicker layers of resin. It is probably a publicity myth that they were built to withstand collisions with rocks and the like off the coast of England. That said, my Eddyline is far from perfect and I have made a number of changes (e.g. replaced the footpegs and back band). As I indicated above I think the category of “North American Boat” is essentially non-existent in the sense of a group of boats that share heritage and design characteristics. There is too much variety and too many quality boats that do not fit the stereotype, mine included. Anyway, I am someone who probably too often plays the role of devil’s advocate

“North American Boat” is essentially…
…non-existent"



Even among the actual range British designed and built kayaks there are some that do not share heritage in any obvious way. I am thinking particularly of Kirton’s boats. Even their sea kayaks, while having a Brit deck layout, have hull profiles closer to racing kayaks and appear more similar to Epics and QCC700s than Nordkapps or Anas Acutas.



Boats such as the CD Solstice line might be better termed “Northwest” design than American. Necky originally referred to the Elaho as an ‘East Coast’ design.



Maybe some catagories of North American sea kayak design could be broadly defined?