I’ve always said that I thought…
...J-cradles are a bad idea for exactly the reasons you experienced. Thanks for affirming my concerns about them. Saddles are the best way to transport kayaks on a roof rack. End of story.
Hardly the end of the story.
I often carry a friend's kayak on a set of J-racks. On either Yakima cross bars OR my home-built cross bars, I have no concern at all. Why? Because the stress caused by cross winds in that situation is never even remotely close to that which occurs when carrying my guide-boat, and I've been doing that for years with no trouble. Yeah, the guide-boat doesn't put a localized bending force on the cross bars the way J-hooks do, but do the test I mentioned above with J-hooks on good cross bars and you will not worry about that aspect. The bottom line is that we are talking about flimsy, factory-rack cross bars here, and THAT is the issue. A guy tells us that a cross bar made of flimsy, tubular plastic has failed, and this becomes a reason not to use J-hooks? Ha!
Sideways force on the rack as a whole? I have no worries because with a kayak on J-hooks that force is miniscule in cross winds compared to what happens with my guide-boat. Those gusts probably feel powerful to a person who's never carried any other kind of boat, but it's not very much when compared to what some bigger, bulkier boats will do.
I didn’t mean to lead to that one
We had saddles and went back to stackers after finding they managed multiple boats easier and were a lot less fuss over a long drive - less constant adjustment.
For the record, nothing I said was to indicate that saddles were better than J-bars or stackers etc. I DID mean to say that third party cross bars are a better idea than factory cross bars.
I agree with you completely
...and I know plenty of people have years of use with them with no incidents.
But they cost additional, they take up space, they add LOTS of weight, they're an additional point of connection and they concentrate loads, which certainly sounds lie what happened in this case. And now people are drilling holes in their round yakima bars to keep them fro rotating, which weakens the bar itself.
Now most people will never encounter what the OP did, so it's probably not a worry. But for me the marginal to questionable utility just doesn't justify the purchase.
Thule all the way
I’ve hauled multiple kayaks and canoes up to 18’ long and some over 90 lbs (not to mention heavy extension ladders and bundles of steel conduit) on Volvo and Subaru wagons, a Hyundai Santa Fe and a Ranger Pickup using Thule bars either attached to the rain gutters (older models) or sistered or transversely mounted with Thule adapters to the factory bars, depending on orientation. On many of the longest trips I have used Thule J racks. I would NEVER rely on factory racks to support any load on a vehicle.
Considering Yakima vs. Thule, I know there are fans of Yakima racks out there but I think the round bars are inappropriate for boat carriage because of the problems of rotation and the fact that the load is concentrated on one narrow point of the circumference. And I can tell you, having worked for many years as a construction electrician, it is easier than you think to bend a round pipe (in fact I used to do it hundreds of times a day). But try bending a square one.
If you are going to haul boats, your safest bet is to invest in Thule. I few hundred bucks is miniscule compared to the cost of your kayaks and canoes and not even worth fretting about compared to the possibility of hurting somebody in traffic with a failed carrying system.
I wish carmakers would just dispense with their stupid flimsy racks and either give us firmly seated hardware points on the car roofs or go back to sturdy continuous integral rain gutters. I distrust the factory bars so much that for long trips I run a pair of extra long heavy duty Thule straps around the Thule rack and through the car doors across the headliner to secure the entire bag of worms to the car as safety backup. I’ve hit wind gusts that nearly blew my car off the road while carrying a 70 lb kayak and a 90 lb canoe on the Subaru with such a setup and nothing budged.
By the way, if your budget can’t support a Thule purchase (though I’ve found most of my components on Ebay for half price or less) you can haul more safely than using the factory racks by proper utilization of the $40 foam block kits. I hauled my first kayak 1000’s of interstate miles using one of those. Properly strapped through the car doors the blocks won’t move and if the kayak is also strapped through the car roof and securely guyed to the front and rear bumpers it is not going any where.
But
In my post above, I mentioned that a lateral wind physically bent a pair of J-bars flat, destroying all of the thumbscrew-bolt connections in the process. So in this case, the heavy-duty cross bars shifted the failure to the J-bar system. Meanwhile, a V-bar system next to it experienced no issues at all.
So while a good cross bar will avoid the OP's problem, it doesn't alter the fact that a boat mounted on its side must experience greater forces from lateral gusts. I would wager that you have a good set of J-bars, with beefy connections, which is as it should be.
A V-bar system is far more stable than saddles, by the way, I've compared them directly.
Round Bars
Willowleaf,
The round Yakima bars are far thicker than the EMT or even the rigid conduit you are used to bending. And of a better steel. Somewhere between schedule 40 and schedule 80 wall thickness. Rotation has never been an issue, the gunwale brackets want to stay flat under the gunwale. With the load tied down you could take the clamp bolt out of the gunwale bracket and it won’t go anywhere. Being able to rotate an accessory mount to lay flat against a load is a plus. With todays car roofs being so arched a set of flat bars held perpendicular to the towers are never aimed at each other. makes it really tough to attach bike racks. With round bars the accessory mounts can align with each other and clamp at any angle to the towers.
Thule makes a very strong system, best on a vehicle with rain gutters or a flat roof.
If you just heft a Yakima crossbar,
you’ll see it greatly exceeds the strength of nearly all factory crossbars. Not that Yakima bars are bulletproof. I did bend one a little when I forgot I had a bike in a carrier on the rack, and drove into the carport.
I’ve experienced some really sudden, strong gusts out west, carrying boats or on a loaded motorcycle.
On the J cradle issue, I haven’t used them. They must be better than stacking whitewater kayaks on edge. I’ve used old Yakima cradles where the boat sits right side up or inverted, and side winds tend to blow above and below the boat without problems.
Hull up
I believe carrying canoes or kayaks hull up is the most streamlined method, both for air flow coming from the front or side.
I never liked J cradles for the very reason of their poor frontal and lateral air streamlining.
Over the past 40 years I have had round Yakimas and rectangular Thules. I prefer Thule.
Rack towers should be fixed directly onto or into the roof for maximum strength. Rain gutters used to provide this type of affixation. You can still get mini rain gutters from Thule, which you can screw through the roof of your Lamborghini. Suck it up and be strong and safe.
Agree on hull up for aerodynamics.
Hull up usually brings a bit lower center of gravity also.
J carriers
I started off being nervous using Yakima Q towers and Thule J cradles. At this point I sometimes just hose off my boat after a paddle while still on top of my car and leave it there for days while commuting to work. It’s a bad practice as far as fuel economy goes but it shows the Q-tower system is strong. I’m sure Thule’s system is just as good.
Yakima for bike racks, I agree
I agree that Yakima seems to be better for bike racks. With bikes you aren’t loading something with broad flat areas of contact. But I can see having Yakima if you haul both bikes and boats. Since I always drive wagons my bikes go inside the car.
No question Yakima bars are thicker than EMT conduit. That’s not what I was comparing them to. I’ve bent tons of 3/4" schedule 40 rigid galvanized conduit, which is the same OD as Yakima tube but has a 25% thicker wall (0.107" vs 0.085"). That was with a hand or hickey bender, not a hydraulic or mechanical assist frame bender. In fact, if we just needed a little kick in a piece in the field we’d stick one end in a hole in a concrete floor and throw a little body english on it.
J racks only for some boats
I won’t use my J-racks for any kayak over 46 lbs. And mostly I use them for our Feathercraft and Pakboat folders when I haul them set up, because it is easier on their frames to be cradled that way resting against their chine bars.
I agree that hull up is the way to go, at least for the boat models we haul (mainly Greenland profile touring SINKS and a narrow poly canoe). A snug (and tethered) cockpit cover reduces turbulence and windlift beneath the upturned kayak. Though having the cover on means you don’t get that free car wash the first time you come to a hard stop on the way home from the takeout.
X’s 2
Get rid of the factory racks and get Yakama, Thule, or Malone.
Then have them attached directly to your vehicle, and not the vehicle factory rack
jackL
For wide SOT j cradles have limitations
Especially on thin factory aero racks. For narrow kayaks they’re versatile and secure on Thule and Yakima
Welcome to the club !
My wife and I are driving 700 miles tomorrow to pick up a two year old boat that we are buying.
Jack L
round is stronger…
I’m not following your argument about not having a broad area of contact with round bars. You don’t place your kayak directly on the bars, and the accessories, such as cradles, attach via multiple “snaparounds” that effectively distribute the force around the entire bar.
I see many more bent Thule bars than I do Yakima bars, and have hauled lumber and other supplies well above the rated limit of my Yakima bars, with no ill-effect.
That said, God knows we have been through enough Yakima versus Thule pissing matches on this (and other) boards. Both work extremely well. It comes down to specific car fit and personal preference, IMO.
Forget round versus square, my next rack will probably be one of the new aero racks, with a Good-Boy “Vee” bar system on-top.
Greg Stamer
Bent Bars
For several years, I was convinced that Thule cross bars were a lot weaker than Yakima bars, because all of the bent bars I've seen that were "name brand" models, and I've seen several, were Thule. Well, finally I saw a Thule bar close-up without end caps, and sure enough, the walls are pretty thick and it looked like it ought to be quite strong. I have to wonder if the smaller overall dimensions of the Thule bar compared to Yakima might make it more prone to bending.
But like Greg just said, I'm not saying one is better than the other or even that one must be stronger. Surely, either one is more than strong enough. I do like the ability to tilt kayak carriers to match the profile of the hull though, and that's easy with a round bar. Oh, I might add, round bars are more versatile if one uses gunwale brackets too. Some canoes have a lot of "swoop" from end to end, and a gunwale bracket that's restricted to being level (as is the case when mounted on a rectangular bar) will only contact the gunwale at one edge instead of across the whole flat part of the contact patch. That factor won't come into play with closely spaced bars so it won't matter on most modern cars, but it sure can if there's a lot of bar spread, like say, on a longer truck-type rack.
New sport
OK then, Greg, I guess we’ll just have to start our own more-focused argument about the merits of Good Boy vs. Kayakpro V-bars. You guys with skinny kayaks have all the options, and I’m sick of it, see…
Round vs, Square or Yakima vs. Thule
I really cannot comment on which is stronger. I have used both over the last 20+ years for carrying 150-200 pound loads on my roof rails and neither has bent or failed.
I will make this observation: for whatever reason the Thule bars are much more resistant to corrosion over our Upstate, New York winters (e.g. heavy salting of roadways). I have had to replace 3 sets of Yakima bars due to corrosion, particularly in the area near the end caps. The Yakimas will eventually corrode and expand such that one can no longer adjust or slide the crossbar at the point where it passes through the towers. I have yet to replace the Thule bars I purchased roughly 10 years ago. Of course YMMV.