I have been thinking about trying a C-1. I have spent lots of time in OC-1’s and am a solid class II+ paddler. Just wondering how much difference there is between the two?
Intended use: class II-III
Thanks for any advice.
Mike
depends on the boat
Paddling a big, long C-1 (like a Dagger Cascade)or a long (say over 8’) creek boat, you might not find too much difference. You might want to use a paddle that’s a little shorter. The lower saddle will hurt your knees/ankles/feet more.
However, if you convert a little kayak play boat, you can sink your ends and flip often. Depends whether you still want to run rivers or whether you’re just going for rodeo moves.
Check cboats.net
P.
First, find out how low you can kneel.
Then, if you can kneel really low, find a used Superglide or Zealot. Try it out on easy water. You will be astounded at what it will do.
If your knees and ankles won’t tolerate a 5.5" high seat, then find a Dagger Atom in good used condition. The Atom is a real good handling boat, much sharper than a Cascade, but correspondingly twitchy and grabby. The Cascade is a good all-purpose river runner, “old school” security.
If you have been paddling a short, high rocker OC-1, you will not have much difficulty learning to drive a c-1 across the flats. C-1s have more tail to catch if you are not paying attention. They don’t span holes as well as open boats, and they don’t power through holes as well as kayaks. But c-1s have good to astounding maneuverability, and cross strokes in c-1s are a religious experience.
Cascade
while much said above is true, a Cascade feels much different from most OC1’s. first off any cboat is decked and that in itself is a remarkable adjustment.
secondly the Cascade has very little secondary stability and reaches its critical heeling moment much sooner than almost any OC1. this is because it is flatish with no sides. a slab sided canoe will often have tremendous leaning ability; not so with the Cascade.
Pyranha kayaks make a big water river runner kayak that is somewhere between the play oriented I:4 and their pure creeker M:3 called the H:3. it has the design and dimentions that look to me like it would make a great cboat. unlike the Cascade or Atom (which i hear is much better than the Cascade in every respect) the H:3 kayak would have great surfing ability due to the flat bottom made to do so. but that’s a lot of money to throw down on a boat that you would be ripping up to make into a canoe…
C-1
Mike, If you are up my way, (and I cant sell it by then,) you can take mine for an extended loan. I can’t take the pain, and I am to heavy for this playboat. Dagger Cantrifuge with factory C-1 package. It is a fun pool toy for the winter, but no good for me in a river.
Can’t say that I noticed those problems
when I paddled a Cascade. Maybe it was because I started with a Hahn.
One of my c-1 friends paddled a converted Wavesport Y for a few years, and then a couple of weeks ago I saw him coming down the lake from Chattooga 4 in a Cascade. I will have to ask him for a comparison.
My Millbrook Wide Ride is like a Cascade in that it has surprisingly little initial stability, but the Wide Ride firms up enough as it is tilted.
OC1 to C1
In very general terms I think that C1 is more challenging.
Lots of C boats have low volume sterns and some have low volume bows as well. OC is generaly a surface boat. You work with the flow along the side and bottom of the boat. The low volume ends in a C will sink and then you are dealing with flow along the top as well. Converted kayaks are generaly narrow and short with the expected loss of stability.
In general C’s are less stable than OC’s so most go with lower saddles to make up for that. The term “pain boater” is not a myth.
Otherwise the techniques, including rolling, are pretty much the same. I find paddling C helps my OC skills and visa versa.
I’m comfortable on harder stuff in my OC1 (MR Outrage III+) than in my C1’s (Perception Slasher III- and Wavesport Foreplay II) But that big hole in the top does let the water in.
http://www.cboats.net/ is a wealth of information.
C1
Note: “Category: Canoes”
C-1s are decked canoes. Q.E.D.
The many meanings of C1
Yes Beyond,
C1 does sometimes mean a solo marathon canoe.
C1 also can refer to a solo outrigger canoe.
In this case the original poster mentions OC1’s and class II+, terms which are typicaly used in whitewater discusions. So we assume he is talking about solo decked whitewater canoes, commonly called, you guessed it C1. Just to add to the confusion some of those had a former life as whitewater kayaks.
Of course he could be talking about down river racing boats. Do they have OC1s vs C1s?
Yep
Most are on the right track with what I was looking for. C-1, decked canoe, similar to a kayak but you kneel instead of sit, and use a single blade paddle.
Thanks guys for the info. Not sure if I can get to 5.5" for a comfortable kneel. 6-6.5" seems to be my lowest comfortable level.
I have found a few available locally pretty cheap.
The Dagger Cascade was covered somewhat the other is a Pyrana Prozone 225 set up as a C-1. And then there is Mad Mike’s boat listed above. Any insight as to which would be the better C-1 to start out with coming from an OC-1.
Thanks, Mike
MadMike, check your e-mail.
What do you want to do in a C1?
River running, Rodeo/playboating, slalom…
How big are you?
What OC1 are you paddling now?
It’s hard to make a recomendation without knowing a little more.
The questions that
Tommy are asking are very relevant. Out here the common converted kayaks into c1 are: Dagger outrage, XXX, pyrahna 1:3’s is perhaps most popular. .
Questions answered
River running with some playboating. Up to class III.
5’8", 165# dressed.
Currently paddling a Hemlock SRT, Mohawk Solo 13, Solo 14, and a self built freestyle stripper. Had a Mohawk ProbeII that I paddled for one summer on up to low class III.
Problem is most of my local water is small creeks and rivers to low class II, since I was spending most of my time on these creeks where I was happier with the Solo 13, I sold the Probe. But now am wanting to get back into doing more class II+ stuff.
Mike
Dagger Atom
Is probably the nicest plastic river runner if you can find one. It will surf like crazy, the stern will go down if you work on it and it has pretty good speed. It might feel a little edgy compared to the Probe but I’ll bet that would not be a problem at your weight.
Kayak conversions are going to feel slow and tender for river running but better for playboating. You might want to look at the Wavesport X and Foreplay.
you might
want to ask your question in Boatertalk also.