I tie…
a bowline thru the grab handles on the bow and stern and a taut line hitch to the tow hooks on the front and back of my Jeep for tie downs.
Not a big deal, but
I have straps from several sources - NRS, Malone, big-box store, and no-name from a kayak store. The NRS straps have held up much better than any of the others, mine have rubber covers on the buckles (nice touch) and having the length embroidered on the strap does help. Because they last longer, the pointy part that you put through the buckle really is easier to get through the buckle with cold wet hands.
Having said all that, no it isn’t a big deal - cheaper straps just have to be replaced earlier.
Thank You
Thank you for the explanation. Now I won’t be so worried about initially purchasing the ones I first intended to. I figure if I find that I’m using them often then I’ll upgrade. Thanks again!
Ratchets corrode and stick
When that happens, it’s very difficult to loosen them. As someone said, a cam strap is a much simpler mechanism that doesn’t break down like a ratchet, which has moving parts, a spring, etc. A cam strap can be tightened plenty. The extra tightening power of the ratchet is unnecessary.
I can offer authentic comment here
After 20 + years in the business commercially I have loaded and secured a few thousand kayaks and hauled them for thousands of miles. Zero problems.
Rope / cord / line : whatever you call it. Some is static while others (most) is dynamic. What this means is there is a stretch factor. By all means a good way to go, but check the lines after a few miles and snug down as needed. Potential issue is simply that securing lines in the wet and then driving into heat and sun can cuase the lines to shrink and over-tighten. The opposite is also true.
Went to cam straps over rope on trailers etc, because the straps were faster, didn’t stretch, and just plain easy. I was a climbing guide for years and am fast with many knots. The notion that feeding the end of a line through a truckers hitch loop being faster than feeding a strap end theough a cam buckle is just silly internet garble. I don’t buy that and neither should any reader. Cam straps are super fast and secure and simply require a half hitch bite to finish off.
One issue with cams is corrosion and a simple shot of lubricant every few months keeps them working great.
I’m a rope, knot, rescue system, climber, nautical knotty guy who knows more knots and systems than anyone would ever car about. I use cam straps to secure kayaks upside (deck down) on padded cross-bars. Forget the saddles, cockpit covers and all that nonsense. Only reason for fancy saddles is a very delicate race, or surf ski matrix.
Happy paddling.
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Gotta Reply
– Last Updated: Feb-11-11 2:28 AM EST –
I wasn't being silly when I said I can tie rope faster than I can fasten straps. I use both methods for canoes and similar boats (one reason for straps is that I like to have two flat surfaces holding things down with boats that have a delicate, lightweight hull), and rope is faster for my situation. For the straps, the first thing I have to do is toss them over my boat, wrap each around the crossbar on the other side, and toss them back over the boat the other way. This requires two trips around the car instead of one, and straps also require a bit of care (and a bit of extra time) so they are not twisted in places you don't want them to be, while rope can be handled and tied with ease even at night when you can't see anything (as an example that no care is needed to avoid twisting). For me, two trips around the car instead of one, plus the attention to keeping the strap from twisting takes about as long as tying one end of each rope to the crossbars, tossing the rope over, and walking to the other side (just once) and starting the trucker's hitches on the that side. In the end, I finish faster with ropes than with straps. You may find straps to be faster and that's fine, but don't resort to calling my experience "silly internet garble". I've met more than a few people who should be good with knots, who know plenty of knots, but are all thumbs in spite of all their experience. Also, if you have a helper on the other side of the car to eliminate the extra walking, or if you are dealing with kayaks which you can simply reach all the way around with your arms (especially true for kayaks on a trailer), that would speed strap attachment too.
I don't consider speed to be that important, I only mentioned it in my other post, but on that note, the fastest method I ever used was my dad's method - heavy-duty bungie cords with hooks, with the length pre-set for the specific boat to be carried (the bungie cords were similar to those you can get at hardware stores, but with a diameter of more than one inch). These cords were about four feet long with a bit of rope attached to one end to tailor them to the proper length. Before everyone says "no way" and "unsafe", I remember that in spite of all that length, more than 100 pounds of tension was required to stretch them the 6 inches or so that was necessary to engage the hook (remember that the longer the cord, the easier it is to stretch a certain amount, so think about how strong these were that it took 100 pounds to put 6 inches of stretch into a cord that was 4 feet long!). They were capable of easily maintaining four or five times more tension than that (and probably a whole lot more) so they were hardly under any strain at all, making them pretty safe against failure. The hooks attached to eyes on the crossbars so side-to-side slippage was controlled without using knots. We used that method on a car-topped aluminum jonboat (with just a "little" more wind resistance at highway speed than any paddle craft!). Clamped down to wood-surfaced steel crossbars, the boat never budged, nor could it be moved when "tested" for security.
I wonder about “no saddles” too
– Last Updated: Feb-11-11 12:34 AM EST –
I'm not a kayaker and don't haul boats for a living, but every time I've seen a kayak strapped down on a crossbar, padded or otherwise, the deck gets pooched in at least a little bit if the straps are tight enough so the boat can't slip around. The same would happen to a canoe made from any material if you rested it on the hull instead of the gunwales. If the boat always gets tied on the same crossbars, it makes sense to me that it's bound to be damaged from all that bending. I think saddles are great, from what I can see. Just a little bit of strap tension holds the boat solidly, so there's no need to resort to a lot of hold-down force and the load is not concentrated in a small area. I see dozens of rack-dented plastic kayaks every summer even though I don't do anything for a living that puts me in a position to make this easy to notice, and even a composite boat probably doesn't "like" to have the hull repeatedly bent within a concentrated area like that. Still, most people will occasionally put their boat on an outfitter's trailer and cringe a bit, or improvise a way to secure their boat to someone else's car for a shuttle.
I agree
I’ve used straps before, but when I haven’t had them handy, I’ve used ropes, and found them to be just as good.
I use a trucker’s hitch to secure them, but wonder what knots you or others find work best?
I wouldn’t carry any of my kayaks
composite or plastic unless they are in either saddles or J cradles- nested nicely.
They are happy boats, and I am a happy paddler.
Jack L
Authentic or not, arguing it is academic
– Last Updated: Feb-11-11 11:53 AM EST –
Either has advantages and disadvantages. Use whichever you have and trust, and keep them clean for reliable, long-term performance.
That said, the ratchet does seem unnecessary to me.
No problem
You’ll probably do what I did - use crappy straps for a while, get sick of fighting with them, buy some good NRS straps and keep the crappy ones as spares. Having spares is always a good idea.
Ratchet Straps are for Refrigerators!
Gizmos are for techies. Rope is for my canoe!
The canoe in itself is a basic craft. Why do I need to clutter my life with any more gizmos? Nylon rope, although typically stronger than polypropylene, will also typically stretch more with moisture absorption. After using nylon rope for the past 20+ years, I’ve recently gone to poly because I simply got tired of constantly chasing the stretch/shrink factor of nylon. (Years ago, nylon pulled the cleats clean off my aluminum fishing boat as it dried and shrunk)
After seriously considering cambuckle straps for my new canoe, I chose to stick with rope for its simplicity, cost, versatility, and the fact that when I toss the end of that sucker over the top of my canoe, I don’t need to worry about chips, nicks, dings, etc., on the other side of my shiny little red car.
A lot of valid points have surfaced on this page and although I respect them all, I will stick with rope. Tied fore and aft with two cross loops to secure it snugly to the rack side rails, I’ve had no problems since 1988.
LOL
Sounds about right. This is all new to me so I’m very excited to be learning all I can.
two words - foam blocks
– Last Updated: Feb-11-11 11:45 AM EST –
You don't eliminate the saddles and strap a kayak to the rack directly. You use foam blocks. You can use them 'as-is' or modify them for a small percentage of the cost of saddles, which is another part to wear out, another point of potential failure and costly to boot. Here's the thing: YOU CAN PROFILE FOAM BLOCKS TO APPROXIMATE SADDLES. The only reason for the vast selection of saddles is that people will buy them.
Boats are shipped all the time by dealers and typically they don't use specialized saddles.
I own a ten-year-old composite boat and I have never used saddles. I never did on my poly boat either. Neither boat showed any sign of permanent deformity, the composite boat showed little to no deformity even when tightened down.
I would never recommend saddles to any new paddler. There is better gear to spend your money on than a piece of plastic costing $75 a pair.
no no no , don’t toss the buckle end …
… of a cam strap over the top , toss the non-buckle end .
Unless something is different now a days with Polypropylene rope … it’s not a very good choice . Polyester ropes on the other hand are nice .
No argument
I said rope works, then offered some real world advice if that method is chosen.
Then offered my opinion which the op or anyone can take or leave. Having done both “I” prefer straps for speed, non-stretch, security. I don’t question others choices but I do question blanket statements that don’t fit my experience.
That simple… do what you want. It’s amazing the energy put into such simple stuff…
I agree with that
I just didn’t think a simple “padded crossbar” is perfectly good for every boat. I envision a padded crossbar has being wrapped with padding so that it’s perhaps the diameter of a pool noodle, and when I’ve seen kayaks strapped to that small of a surface area, tight enough that it won’t shift around, the hull material usually bends. Something a little more conforming to hull shape doesn’t have that problem, which is why everything you say makes perfect sense to me.
If refering to my post
you’ll note that I said saddles etc are appropriate for some hulls. There’s another strap trick that can be done which effectively makes a saddle with padded bars but I can’t imagine the effort it would take for me to relay that here… This is fun between conferencs calls though.
My wish to all here is years of happy paddling and trouble free kayak / canoe hauling, whichever method you employ.
shrink-wrap is the coolest, though
Please accept my apology for any
misinterpretation.