sure you can toss it
(if you have the straps with the rubber covers on the cams)
sure you can but …
– Last Updated: Feb-11-11 7:06 PM EST –
...... why would ya ??
My Yakima straps have padded buckles but the non-buckle end goes right over . As a matter of fact "all" the remaining strap goes over , then under the bar and back over again .
I am curious about the polypropylene rope though ... has anything changed that wouls make it a good optional choice ??
I rely on three
a bowline to secure one end, a trucker’s hitch to cinch it down, and half hitches to tie things off.
Polypropylene Today
The polypropylene rope I purchased in recent months is a braided rope that is as pliable as the braided nylon rope I’ve used. Working strength is somewhat less for the diameter but with my experience, I have no fears whatsoever that it will hold adequately.
The cam straps available in my locale were equipped with hooks on the ends, hence no loose end. Hmm? After all, I’m not a complete idiot!
Bottom line… Rope works for me, and has for the past 22 years. Remember, I’m not knocking cam straps, just offering an alternative that might be simpler, more economical, and more versatile.
Happy Paddling!
I’m interested in checking out some …
– Last Updated: Feb-12-11 1:18 AM EST –
...... of the modern PP ropes ... gonna keep an eye out for it , you've got me curious now .
I've got a few hanks of the yellow braided PP (old type) think I picked them up at a flea mart ... it's pretty slick stuff and doesn't knot too well with the knots I know of (loosens up easily) ... got no memory , when it stretches it stays stretched . I like it's waterproof character though and it floats .
I don't get it , cam straps with hook ends , how's that work ??
Diamond Braid Polyypropylene
Hey pilotwingz,
Koch Industries www.kochmm.com makes a 1/4" dia braided with a working load of 50#. Item #5170825.
I know, some will question the 50# limit, but after all, I’m double roping the bow and stern and sure, if I hit a tree at 65 MPH, I’ll probably lose the canoe. If that happens, I’m thinking I’ll have other things to worry about.
Seriously though, http://www.yakima.com/shop/water/water-accessories/boat-strap-kit lists this cam strap boat tie down kit as having s-hooks. My browser won’t pull up the photo and I don’t have a shop locally so I just looked at what’s available at my local hardware stores, checked out Yakima on line, and decided that for about $4.00 I can buy a 100 feet of rope.
I don’t know where you are or if you have a Farm & Fleet store available, but that’s where I bought my rope. They also had 3/8" dia but I decided the bulk was more than I wished for. If I was lining a craft down a rapids, I might consider the 3/8, or maybe a climbing rope, but I’m just puttin’ it on a roof rack.
I keep a loop tied on one end of my cross ropes and just stick it under the rack bar, stick the loose end through the loop, toss it over the canoe, walk to the other side, and with a quick loop under the cross bar and three half hitches, I’m on my way. In over 20 years, I’ve never had an issue with this other than the nylon stretch factor. Ya’ just can’t beat a couple of half hitches locked together. Quick, simple, and effective.
I hope this helps.
“Cam straps with hooks on the end” ???
How does one feed the hooked end through the cam ???
I think you were looking at ratchet straps
Jack L
I have cam straps with hooks
– Last Updated: Feb-12-11 5:22 PM EST –
that I use all the time. The cam buckle has a short strap and a hook attached to it and the long strap has a hook on one end. They look just like ratchet straps but with a cam buckle instead of a ratchet.
I had to do a quick "google" to see what cam straps you guys are talking about. In my neck of the woods if you ask for a cam strap it has hooks on it. If it doesn't most people would probably throw it away.
I was visualizing that as I put my post
above, but never knew they existed.
-Never stop learning!
Thanks for the heads up
Jack L
I get it now …
– Last Updated: Feb-13-11 10:34 PM EST –
...... had to do some surfing to visulize how it works . Couldn't see how you were suppose to get the s hook through the cam buckle , lol .
You don't , lol . The straps with the hooks are two pieces that join at the cam buckle ... I couldn't get my mind past a single piece strap until I looked at those two piece jobs .
50 pounds?
Please, for everyone’s sake, use something stronger!
A 50# rating means you could snap it or weaken it just tying it on! I’ll bet you can a few times that breaking strength with your bare hands.
If that’s really the rating, please use a different rope.
My recollection about polypro rope is that it’s much more susceptible to UV breakdown than Polyester braid. And 1/4" Polyester braid has a breaking stength of 1500 pounds!
ya know , that’s a good point really !!
… I’ve not much concern about giving someone a cam strap to hook up , maybe a quick glance and tug test just to cover a six . Worse case I guess I might tighten it a little more .
Answers?
The basics:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&catalogId=10001&page=Running-Rigging-Fibers
Not to mention that when you
– Last Updated: Feb-13-11 3:02 PM EST –
make a sharp bend in a line / rope as in a bight or loop, you cut it's rating nearly in half......
This is why in Mt. rescue we used a rescue figure eight which has two clip in load loops which "almost" brings the rope back to full strength.
Also a disconnect when the very folk promoting the huge need for saddles to distribute load on the hull evenly don't make that same connection with a 1" strap Vs a piece of .25 line?
Glad it’s not just me.
Interesting - I just haven’t been able to see an easy way of hooking up the biner to my quick-line-thingers from Thule.
cam
i dont know anyone who paddles that even uses rachets anymore…
cam is the way to go. no mechanical failures, iced up, sand in cams, bulkiness etc …all gone with the cam
Marstron-Marlow
braided polypropelene rope. Light, floats, holds knots well. While not as strong as all the fancy braids or polyester it’s perfectly usable. I like the 3/16" for a painter daisy-chained on the foredeck of the kayak which automatically becomes your bow line when transporting.
http://www.apsltd.com/c-1592-Marstron-Marlow.aspx
I am so glad I found these messages!! I have been kayaking for a few years but my ex always put the kayaks on the Thule J Racks and tried to explain the ratchet to me once and I tried once and couldn’t do it lol
Two years later I find the Thule Cam Straps In the box (I have no idea how to use these either at this point, I’m not very mechanical LOL) so I show them to my ex and he shows me how to put them on … SOOO EASY!!! So now that I’m kayaking with friends and my son I have to know these things and I finally understand the difference and Even the names!
So my opinion is
Ratchet straps are in joke and are difficult to use! Especially if you have a cheap pair. The twist and it’s just frustrating.
The Cam Straps Are so easy! A Kid could Use a camp strap!!
And rope, never even crossed my mind :))
Thanks For all the education
Welcome to the neighborhood! Glad this thread helped you.
Late to the party here with lots of interesting posts above me. I’ve used cam straps almost exclusively for more than 20 years to transport my canoes, both composite and wood strip. I like them and find them vey easy and quick to use. I use either the kind with the rubber boot over the cam (which seems like unnecessary overkill), or the kind with a rubber flap that will protect the hull from the metal of the cam when it is tightened down. I have never transported a plastic kayak, and probably never will of any kind.
I and my paddling partners observe one rule when transporting our boats. The owner ties his/her own canoe to the roof or rack, or always carefully checks the finish when trusted others do it. Others may assist with throwing over the straps, but only the owner makes the final cinch and tie of the ends. When I tie on a boat, I always do it in the same way. Beginning with the buckle end toward the front on the driver’s side of the vehicle, throw the loose strap end over the top of the canoe. Run the loose end around the support on the other side and back over the canoe to under the support up to thread the pointed end of the strap through the cam to pull down with a moderate pull to sufficiently tighten. Tie a half hitch with the strap just below the cam so the strap cannot go backwards through the cam. If there is much excess strap, wrap it around both parts of the strap going over the canoe, pull it together and tie with a couple more half hitches. Do the same with the second strap near the back of the car.
Then I use a rope with a bowline on one end to attach to the webbing loops that I have coming from each side of the engine hood attached inside the engine compartment. Run the rope with one wrap around the front thwart of the canoe and then to the other side through the other engine loop. I have a preset loop tied (either a butterfly or a harness loop) at the appropriate point so that I can finish tightening the rope with a trucker’s hitch as tight as like to keep the bow from wandering in any strong cross winds.
If I ever use rope, which I have tried, the problem is I have different types and sizes of canoes. Each canoe needs its own length of rope with a different placement of loop tie for the trucker’s hitch. Cam straps have no such problem. Excess strap length on smaller canoes can be wrapped to take up the slack. Of course I do have different lengths of cam straps for different boats, but they are all labeled much easier to identify than labeling ropes.
I’ve worked with large canoe carrying trailers with ropes tied with trucker’s hitches for scouts and transport of boats at canoe races (such as the 90 miler). There is a problem with different sized boats on those. The cinch loop is almost never is in the right place and has to be retied to get the right length and tension on the trucker’s hitch.