Camping...and change

Paddlers' Place
#1

I’m not much of a kayaker, I’m more of a Canoeist (that should be a word if it isn’t). I prefer canoes over kayaks for a few different reasons, but the main one is carrying capacity.
That’s important to be me because I’m an Explorer, always having an eye out for going further, around the next bend, then the one after that, and eventually, needing to find a place to spend the night. That’s the same on land as it is on water.

Those 2 things go together for me, land and water. All the RV living I’ve done, most of it was in a van, with a mattress and boxes for finishing out the living quarters. The van could get me to and from all sorts of aventure in water living. A canoe can be tied to the top or if small enough, thrown into the van/camper itself, like those smaller ‘pack’ canoes. Perfect for one person and gear.

And an RV/van will enable a person to not only get to a place to recreate, but also stay a while and explore all there, on water and land. Best of all it has a very light footprint, assuming it’s not one of those ginormous house on wheels things. They don’t get to where it’s good anyway, they are for campgrounds.

However, there is a problem with the “vanlife” lifestyle these days. And it’s impacting more than just vanlifers, it’s limiting access to many places on public land where we all could recreate, float, paddle, fish, camp, etc.
And it’s afflicting the West as a whole, not in a good way.

Recreating has turned into a Lifestyle. And in the lower end, not in a good way. The vanlifers are in the lower end of this. When I lived in my van, for almost all of that time I also worked, did construction in rural areas of CO.
My goal was to improve my skills and experience in an affordable manner, putting more tools in my toolbox so to speak. So when I stopped living in my van, I could step into making a pretty good living and being my own boss. That was the End Goal. Recreating was just part of that lifestyle.

What has changed, since co vid it seems is now people are going into the vanlife as indeed, a lifestyle. And many do it as they don’t have a lot of other options, are young and want to experience it, but a fair amount do it as a ‘job’. They do yt videos on “how to stealth camp”, “how to find free areas to camp [public land]”, etc. how to do vanlife basically.

So legions of people, many w/o any assets/money/work are jumping into vans and flooding the national forests of The West. Places where I could put in now resemble parking lots, sometimes getting blocked in by people parking there. Trash. Areas even closed off due to over use and abuse.

This woman is a classic example of all that’s wrong. She’s a bum. Not much for work history and no interest in working. Wants free stuff given to her. Complains about public lands being closed off to RV camping now.
Yet…she IS the problem. She makes money showing people how to do what she does. Then she complains when, due to over use, those areas get closed down. Or someone parks in a parking lot she views as “hers”.

I hope this stops, but I don’t see any remedy for it other than to continue to deny public acces to public lands. Access to water points are especially high value to RV campers, so your put in/take outs may be challenged.

Some things to think about:

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#2

I got back into camping after a 21 year hiatus. One trip was a private commercial campground, another waa a state park, and two were on private property. The private campground was clean and quiet but expensive. The state park was noisy and puncuated by hordes of people flailing with flashlight. The private property was quiet, peaceful and without lights, except for the infernal generators used to power the lights and the blasted air conditioners for the RVs some of the accompanying parties brought along.

I agree that canoes offer the best option for outfitting a camping trip via open water. Although specialized kayaks will transport gear efficiently, the extra load often must be balanced carefully to avoid compromising steerage, balance and performance.

The canoe makes a great form of tandem trasportation for exploration, once the site is set up. It can be much easier to master, on flat water, than a tandem kayak.

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#3

Undecked canoes don’t do as well as sea kayaks in coastal camping situations. I can get all my camping and fishing gear into my sea kayak for multiple days of camping. However, I do both kayaks and canoes. I have tandem and solo canoes and enjoy camping from them. When I use my kayak, I think it is the best boat and when using my canoes I think they are the best. Each has its strengths and weakness. I enjoy using a single bade paddle in a canoe and a double blade in the kayak. I can paddle further and faster in my kayak when dealing with wind and against current than in my canoes. However, it is easier to pack and carry more depending on the size of the canoe than a kayak and easier to change position. A canoe is more easily portaged over land. Both do well when using a cart.

I did like camping out west as it didn’t have as many restrictions on where you could camp as here in the east, but that was primarily a function of lighter use and population density. I still camp fairly freely here in the east, but some areas require permits. What you are now experiencing is the impacts of greater use and an increasing population density. With that comes use restrictions. That’s inevitable as our population and use dynamics change.

I try not to judge others as I am not walking in their shoes. However, bad behavior I do judge and that cuts across all social statuses. Bad behavior results in stricter regulations. Take the use of 4 wheelers in wilderness areas as an example. Being inconsiderate of others like leaving trash, loud music, running generators all night, driving offroad where prohibited, etc. The idea of entitlement which also crosses all social statuses when individuals don’t think the rules should apply to them.

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#4

Off to the Allagash in the North Maine Woods next week. Some people complain about the fees (day use fee, camping fee, etc.) but I am happy to pay them to have access to such a great place. I feel pretty comfortable predicting that I will see no “van lifers” on the 3 hour drive down dirt logging roads to get to our put-in. The only people we will compete with for campsites are other paddlers.

Can’t wait.

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#5

I agree and poi ted out that the caboe is best for flat water. It’s up to the paddler to select the best boat for conditions.

I’m just pointing out the changes that happened since my last camping experiences and not condemning the trends as much as feeling disappointed in the lack of decorum and the reality that just dropping into a campground is mostly a thing of the past. Now it seems necessary for reservations months in advance, while I see only about 75% occupancy. Peollecseem less sensitive to maintaining solitude, campsites are vacated with fires burning . . . Don’t want to be a downer dump. Just my observations. Seems more like people getting away from home that enjoying the natural setting. Nothing wrong with that. As lointed out, that motivates the Rangers to enforce stricter enforcement. My last trip, a guy was yapping over a bullhorn to direct a reunion group to attend events. The announcements were in a foreign language, so I didn’t understand the message.

#6

That’s what we used to call an a***** block. It makes going there take more energy than what they are willing to expend, so they don’t go there.

#7

I usually abide by that, but if you read my ‘new user’ thread, you’ll see I have a deeper version of that vanlife woman’s life. So been there, done that.
The difference between what I did and what they are doing is they are like ‘career’ people. I did my ‘homeless living in a van’ phase with the idea of working to improve my life, get out of it better, more stable, financially better.
She–and many vanlifers seem to be just living in a van…and not doing anything to change their situation. Some are old peole who can get by doing that on their soc sec check. Good for them. They are at the end of their road and are making do the best they can. Love that. Far better than just surrendering.

However, the large population of vanlifers don’t have a plan, no idea, no desire on what comes next in their life. Where will they be in 5 years? What can they offer an employer after 5 years living in a van? Did they get skills/experience? Not that I can see. There are 2 places in AZ that are filled with those types of people. Some snowbirds, but a I’m talking about they live in a van/trashed RV there because it’s free. And that’s the horizon of their plans.

I’d have sort of similar conversations w/the homeless in denver. Big encampment on the platte river btw. But at least with them they have booze/drugs as their goal. And most seem OK with dying over it in the end anyway as they don’t care.

#8

NO sense in worrying about what other people do. It is none of your business.

There is a skill to finding the quiet places. This is especially true in the summer season.
I avoid National Parks now.
I camp during the week.
I am always on the look out for new places to camp.
I don’t use apps.

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#9

That’s the solution - going further away to get away from people who don’t have self control. It’s strange how most people would never scream in their home, but are compelled to scream in the woods when other people are trying to enjoy the solutude.

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#10

What goes around comes around. Next time I go camping, I’ll take a bullhorn so I can scream, make animal noises and babble; pass gas and laugh hysterically. Take noisemakers, set up a strobe light. If people want solitude, the can get the hell away from me. Thanks for the idea.

#11

Actually, I am quite the libertarian, moreso than most people are comfortable with.
I really don’t care what other people do…until it impacts me.
The promoting of ‘vanlife’ does impact me as it does everyone else who access most public land, mainly in the west as that’s what I know of.
But also, full time RV living in general, boondocking in specific, as that’s unsupervised, no parental control, so these places are trashed and getting worse.

I’ve never been one to do the campground thing, so I was a boondocker/nomad before the fad.
Now when I go, I see areas either closed off…or trashed. And throw in some derelects now and then as they’re doing the bum thing. So some of your gear comes up missing as a cherry on top.

I moved away from that, but as I might get back into road tripping during the cold seasons up north, the boondocking/nomad RV living lifestyle impacts me. I’ve already seen it where overnite places like walmart are now off limits at many of them.

So just a conversation here.
and paddlers are more solo/nomadic people anyway, imho

#12

Knowledge. And this is one of the main things that annoyed me with that female bum. She complained about all the people and closures, then had another video on how to find places where they can ‘stealth camp’, aka not been completely trashed and closed off yet.
See the duplicity? Absurdity?

But that’s part of having a ‘job’ as a poster on social media.
They need eyes, people to make money.
So they vie with each other in giving ‘tips and tricks’ to find untrashed places to go to.
In order to make a buck, they have to help kill what they are utilizing. That’s absurd, but I realize a lot of people will do whatever they need to do in order to get money, especially if it entails not having to actually work.

So good boondockers/nomads should be like fishermen–be huge liars. NEVER tell people where you go/what you caught.
Or even paddlers. I’ve seen local rivers start to become infested with city people when a social media account expounds the wonders and fun of the place.

#13

Kids. I hear them squeeling around as they play, so same in the woods. As far as in general, I’ve found city people get used to having to speak at a higher volume. I took a GF canoe camping once, she in front, me in back. Soon into the float, I called her name and got her to turn and face me. I quietly said she doesn’t need to speak so loud, I’m right here, 10 ft away. She got it. Only had to tell her once.
…ya know, she was one of my past GFs that I could have had an LTR with…

#14

Going to try a post.
Here is the national forest in idaho, but it can be in any of the western states
these people are ‘boondocking/nomads’.

#15

I’m not talking about kids playing. Someone was yapping over a bullhorn through the weekend. What Someone does in the privacy of their home is different than the a public space where solitude is implied. If anyone disagrees with that, your welcone to those interruptions. I taught my kids to respect the privacy and solitude of others. If others want to play loud music, scream, and disrupt the atmosphere, I’ll leave them to their psychotic episodes of uncontrolled ignorance and stay home. I have different standards of behavior and feel proud that my children learned to respect others. They and their children don’t disrupt the solitude of others. That makes me feel proud.

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#16

someone with a bullhorn “camping”? yeah, that’s not the type of creatures I’d want to be around…anywhere

as one of the bennies of a real campground is they have rules
that’s about the only positive thing I can say about them, weeds out the lowlifes/slobs