My short-term recommendation would be to take your camping trips and portage rapids while you’re learning whitewater skills, and to seek whitewater to train (with appropriate instruction and safety precautions) on that doesn’t involve camping. As you develop your whitewater skills you can decide whether you want a dedicated whitewater boat, and whitewater/camping boat, or something else.
Most folks, I think, would argue that a canoe is the way to go portaging. Given the choice, I’d generally agree, but not everyone wants to or can afford get a different boat for every day of the week, and it sounds like you want to develop your whitewater skills in a kayak, not get a canoe. Depending on where you paddle and how you pack, it might not be terrible to portage your 11ft rec boat and backpacking gear, especially with short portages over well-travelled trails. Some shoulder padding might make a big difference.
I agree that soloing a canoe efficiently over distances takes a bit more practice, and that is certainly the case with a dedicated whitewater canoe, unless you’re relying on the current entirely.
If it was a big open style river a medium sized maneuverable sea kayak might work. People have paddled the Grand Canyon in sea kayaks. If it’s a smaller technical style river than a hybrid ww boat with a rear hatch would work.
But as others have said, would take at least a season of ww paddling to get the skills necessary to run class 4 ww, and that’s if you are a very quick learner.
Thanks for the advice, my plan last year was to maybe go kayak on the snake near Idaho Falls. The route we were planning to take had class 1-2 rapids. A good example of what I may want to do, after getting some instruction and experience, is the Yampa between Silverton and Steamboat Springs. This stretch is mostly class 2-3 with a single class 4 according to the source I’m looking at. Would a Dagger or one of the other boat companies you mentioned be appropriate for either trip?. If it helps, my gear is set up for lightweight backpacking because that is what I have mostly done in the past. Also, are any of the high end iks comparable to a crossover? I always assumed they would be very slow on the flats like you suggested.
Crossover kayaks would be perfect for the type of trip you mention, as long as you portage the IV. Of the boats I have, I would be comfortable using the Jackson Rogue or the Pyranha Fusion (crossover kayaks), If I wanted more space and easier packing options, I would also consider the P&H Hammer and Prijon Yukon (ocean play/light touring). The Rogue and the Fusion would be the most fun, but the Yukon could swallow the most gear.
Do you have any more specifics on the stretch of the Yampa you are looking at? While it does go through Steamboat, it doesn’t go anywhere near Silverton. Steamboat to Maybell is no problem, but you probably don’t want to go much past there. Cross Mountain Canyon can have some legit Class IV depending on water level, but it’s in a 4 mile canyon with no egress until the bottom of the canyon. If something goes wrong, you can’t expect much help.
Nothing more than Class III on that stretch I don’t think, but I’ve never boated it. I think there is quite a bit of private land along that stretch, so you’ll have to pick campsites accordingly.
Howdy from Fort Worth. I’m not a WW guy yet. I still saving up for gear and lessons. Not sure where in TX you are, but there are a few places to take lessons in the San Marcos area. One name I’ve heard a lot of positive stuff about on various facebook groups is Ben Kvanli (kayakinstruction.org). Also, there is a manmade whitewater course up in OKC where you can take classes.
The 2 boats I’ve seen recommended most often for class III kayak camping are the Dagger Katana and Liquid Logic Remix XP. The Dagger Greenboat is the one I see talked about most when people kayak the Grand Canyon.
Any experienced kayaker is not going to be thrilled at the prospect of paddling Class IV with a kayak loaded down with camping gear. I have been paddling for 40 years and last fall I paddled my fairly high volume "old School " Noah AQ on the Class III - IV Nolichucky in NC/ TN with camping gear stuffed into the back. It really changes the way the boat handles and required me to really pay attention and demanded all of my experience.
Most people exaggerate the ratings of rapids.
It is really the obstacles that are the greatest challenge. Large boulders, snags, boulder sieves, big holes, ledges and falls. Those are the things that can wrap your boat or pin it. Being pinned in a kayak is never good.
Six videos linked here show running class III - IV on a multi-day run on Ontario’s Dog River. Not my trip but I have paddled this river OC-1 but not with the skill & style these guys have. Note: the first is mostly an introduction and the last is the final portion of the portage around Dennison Falls.
You’ve just described the Dagger Katana 10.4 perfectly.
It’s a crossover hull. Drop down skeg for the flats. Class lll/lV capable; & w/ the right gear, can easily handle 50 mile multi-day floats.
The longest I’ve had Katana—that I got last March—has thus far been out on 3-day, 40 mile, multi day, self support floats; w/ everything stored internally (bow & stern) amongst (2) Watershed Futa stowfloat bags in the stern, one Watershed Salmon stowfloat in the bow, & one 10L bag behind the seat w/ room to spare.
Dagger’s Greenboat would also be an excellent approach.
Not empty. You can see a pack & blue barrel in one. The other packs may be under the float bags. When we ran the Dog in 2001 all of the rapids run were run with loaded boats.
Actually both the guy in the purple Mohawk Viper 11 (Scott) and the guy in the yellow Mohawk Viper 12 (Alan) were carrying gear. I suspect the other two boats show were not as it is always best to have the gear as close to center as possible and there was empty space inboard of the bags in both.
Actually as whitewater canoes go the Viper 12 and the Probe 12 are pretty good whitewater canoe camping boats with good capacity. I have a composite Clipper Viper 12 and have used it to do overnight trips on the Big South Fork of the Cumberland River, mostly Class I and II but with two rapids that rate a Class III+ to Class IV-, depending on who you talk to and water levels. It will easily take 30 L blue barrels transversely in front of and behind the pedestal and still has room for 54-60" long bags.
It is not uncommon practice for whitewater canoe camping boaters to portage gear around rapids and run the boats through empty, and the other two boaters in the video may have done that. Although I have run Class III rapids and a couple of easy Class IVs in a loaded boat, there are many that I would choose not to tackle that way.
There is a small fraternity of ultra lightweight camping kayakers.
In decades of paddling with canoeists, rafters and kayakers I don’t remember ever meeting one. Everyone I know brings a raft as a gear hauler.
You are just in the wrong place. Rafts in the West are common… In the East and in Canada like Ontario and Quebec. everyone carries their own gear. Sea kayaks are the craft of choice in offshore multiweek trips in Maine and canoes inland.
I have done overnight trips on eastern rivers that involve whitewater and have never had a support raft along. In fact in a canoe, one tends to become the support boat for the kayakers.
