Capacity and then some
The Novacraft Prospector 18. Huge. Or you can borrow my 22’ Chestnut Ogilvy when the canvas is back on it. 
A Few Hulls
Was wondering when someone would mention the Wenonah Champlain. A good Big guy boat. Another would be the Souris Quetico 18.5. I would think the Novacraft Prospector 16, 17, or 18 would be fine, but the 18 certainly the best of the three for you, and the other two easily workable. Another might be a Bell Eveningstar, if you could find one. Not paddled it, but looks like a contender. ALso, a Bell Northwoods. My old Mad River Revelation would do haul a ton of gear, but it weighed a ton on your SHOULDERS (LOL)!
Some of those big hulls
demand weight. The Souris River Wilderness 18 is often used by portage crews who also tote heavy tools to maintain the ports.
Its fine with the chainsaws… Its not so fine with only me and no load…the least gust of wind picks it up.
I also have a Wenonah Odyssey from 1990. It must have been one of the first truly big expedition canoes. We have actually paddled it on Lake Superior for two week trips.
17’ minimum
My guideline is to take the maximum weight capacity of a canoe and roughly half it for best performance. If you are dealing with Swift (John Winters design) or Bell Canoe they give an actual load range. Others, that suggest a canoe can hold 1000 or 1200 pounds it is best to half that number, (or maybe multiply by .50 - .65 depending on water conditions)
I don’t think any 16’ canoe would be well suited, so look for at least 17’ if it is a deeper sort of classic canoe, and at least 18’ if it is a modern low-profile boat (for example, I would bet the 17’ Novacraft Prospector has more total volume than the 18’6" Wenonah MNII.
Big canoes I have tried and liked:
Flatwater - Souris Quetico 18.5 - super stable, light, tough, expensive, relatively fast, loads of volume.
Wenonah Mn II - Super fast, stable enough, not too tough, a bit less expensive.
Wenonah Sundowner 18’ - Good boat.
Mixed water - Tripper XL - the most stable I’ve had, very tough, very heavy, handled much better than expected.
Novacraft Prospectors - Pretty much the industry standard in Canada - tough, predictable, good boats for the price. Don’t get the 16’ for your load, but the 17 or 18 would be fine.
Hellman Slocan - Great boat.
I could go on about boats for a while, but if you tell us what models you are considering that would be quicker. Also, if you are buying new, what dealers/lines are available.
i found one is this the right one
Guys,
I found a canoe on Craigslist its a Grumman 18ft ( don’t have model yet ) capacity 1000 lbs I believe its a expedition canoe am i on the right path.oh by the way 300.00 bucks
Bargain!
– Last Updated: Feb-04-12 11:10 PM EST –
Aluminum canoes are not perfect, as they are a bit heavier than some, and a bit loud, and a bit less nice-looking.
That said, Grumman's are possibly the best of the type, the 18' is very stable and has loads of capacity, and they last forever without any maintenance. For $300 if it is in even fair shape it is a steel. Actually, it is aluminum, which will have value to a recycler even if you eventually manage to destroy it (unlikely).
I'd buy that in a heartbeat, even though I have canoes that retailed for 10X that much I would still enjoy a trip in a Grumman.
Really, the main difference you will notice will be the weight. Use some of the cash you saved and buy a set of these yoke pads: http://www.gear4portaging.com/yokepads.html and portaging will be easier. If you decide down the road that you love canoeing and a lighter/faster boat is for you, you will certainly get your money back on the Grumman.
just a little more info
The last reply has got me thinking. The first canoe I was in was in the boundary waters I remember the outfitter asking what kinda canoe we wanted ( had 2 choice’s ) we choice the lighter of the 2 It was Kevlar ( I think ) I tip the damm thing , It took me a while to understand how to operate in a canoe . The second time was a 4 day trip down the Manistee River this canoe was the plastic type ( sorry I am not educated in this sport and the materials these things are made of ) I don’t know the make BUT i liked it . light, easy to handle down the 6 mph current but my tail bone after 5 hrs was killing me.
Now the materials the last reply speaks of , heaver ,louder I may think about this a little more
By the way the reason I don’t want to buy a new one is because my little girl is getting married in may and that stupid think called money is a little tight.But maybe I am making brain surgery out of this and take the grumman and run.
I really want to thank all of you, your input has made this a fun experience
Go for it.
– Last Updated: Feb-05-12 10:38 AM EST –
Offer $200. They are not easy to sell.
I think it will meet your needs just fine. If you get into the sport in a bigger way down the road you might make a change in favor of quiet and light. But that is a canoe that has taken many people into many beautiful places and made it out just fine. Very trustworthy and durable for flatwater. If you start getting into white water it will do the job but it sticks to rocks and it will get pretty banged up pretty fast which is one reason all these modern materials are favored nowadays.
At That Price…
…I’d grab the Grumman - it’ll certainly do to get you started, and you can resell it if you decide you want something else. It’ll also let you get some paddling in while you lie in the weeds and wait until something else that’s more attractive shows up on the used market.
Regional price variations
Here in Manitoba, Canada, an 18’ Grumman in good shape would easily fetch $600-$800, and maybe get a thousand. One that had been kicked around a bunch would still be worth $400-$500. The point is that price will vary depending on where you are, but $300 is still a good price, and it won’t go down.
We tripped BW
with a Grumman 70lbs. But when we hit forty five it ceased to be fun.
You can sure try it. It may not be the “right” boat but it gets you out there.
The Right Canoe For Heavy Payload
I have an Old Town 164 Discovery. This model is deep enough to carry a lot of gear below the gunnels. It is constructed of CrossLink Three which is extremely strong and durable. We are heavy older men like you.
Rochelle’s Canoe Rental on the Brazos River in Texas has a big fleet of this model and I figured they made a wise choice so I bought one for $475. used from High Trails here in Garland about 10 years ago.
It may be you don’t need one this strong and heavy if you are not using it in rocky jagged terrain as is the case on the Brazos. It weighs 60 lbs and is 16ft 4" in length.
I have hit a large rock fully loaded and moving in swift water. I felt the boulder move into the hull front to back and felt the hull go back to its original shape instantaneously with no more than a scratch among many other scatches or gouges that are no threat to the structure whatsoever.
Choose a boat that is deep with a tall freeboard (distance from top of gunnels to waterline). This will allow you the carrying capacity and payload space without feeling overloaded. Get an 18 footer if possible or at least a 16 footer.
Get back supports seat attachments so you don’t get fatigued after two hours.
Have great fun paddling adventures!!
The old back-support issue
Okay, I’ll be the first to point out that for a lot of us, the best way to completely eliminate back problems is to paddle from a kneeling position. A few people can’t kneel, but most people who think they need a back rest to solve their problems have never even tried kneeling. Having a back rest is actually one of the best ways to limit yourself to just “going along for the ride”. It all depends on what you are looking for. For some people, half the fun of canoeing is being able to use your boat to its potential, and back rests aren’t the way to make that possible.
Novacraft Prospector 17
Dear numb,
I managed to pick up a used Novacraft Prospector 17 this summer for $ 200.00. It’s made out of SP3 poly and it’s heavy at 88 pounds, but I don’t find that na issue. I’m 6’ 5" and 330 pounds and my fiancee is less than half my size but with her in the bow seat the canoe is trimmed halfway decent and it’s a pleasure to paddle around local lakes and rivers.
That particular Novacraft model is available in several different materials and it will hold you and your buddy and your gear and maybe 1/2 a moose if you need it to do that. It holds 1200 pounds according to the specs and the specs aren’t exaggerated in the least.
Eventhough the canoe is 88 pounds I can carry it around with no trouble and I’m 52 years old. I have an Old Town Discovery 13 which is 4 feet shorter and on paper 4 pounds heavier, but compared to the Novacraft it seems like it’s easily 20 to 30 pounds heavier. I’d much rather launch and recover the Prospector.
I’m far from an experienced canoeist so the only advice I’ll offer to you is shop around and find a clean and serviceable used canoe to get started. If you find that you enjoy canoeing and fishing out of your canoe and you bought right you’ll be able to sell your starter canoe and put the money towards a better boat once you know more about what you want.
Regards,
Tim Murphy AKA Goobs
is this a good buy
All,
i an looking at a old town 174 it wieght is 80 plus lb and has a capacity of 1200 lbs, 400.00 bucks i believe it is 10yrs old . what do ya think? I am wanting it for Isle Royale will do a few very short portage’s me and my brother-in-law are 580 lb. plus another 125 lb of gear.Is this the right canoe for the money???
Thanks bill
I would buy it in a second
that is providing it’s in good shape. I have two disco 169 and love them.
If it came down to OT Disco’s
– Last Updated: Feb-18-12 5:40 PM EST –
I wouldn't paddle. They weight way more than catalog weight, are soft in the bottom and shaped to stack, not shed waves.
Steel metal canoes cannot be made with compound curves, hence are slugs through the water and they are heavy. And they often have float tanks where we'd like to pick them up for a double carry. If $300 is the limit, get the Grumman, but it's far from a terminal boat.
ABS hulls are lighter, but still heavy, still soft and still slow.
Consider a used composite hull: Bell Northwind or Woods, Swift Winisk, Prospector 17 or Temagami, or Wenonah Champlain Itasca or Seneca. All are seakindly, which seems an important criteria and will step right along, ie paddle efficiently.
Composite is stiffer and thereby faster in the water and lighter overhead on portage. Hulls designed by guys with names generally work better than generic ones. Buying used should cut the price 1/2 to 2/3.
Go Grumman
Poly boats are basically disposable. I know some folks love them because they are really tough, but eventually, they fuzz on the bottom, crack in the stems if hit, and get wavy/soft on the bottom just from regular use. Then, they are nigh on impossible to repair. So, $1000 for a poly boat that lasts 10 years isn’t such a bad deal, but $1500 for a Royalex boat that lasts 30 years is a better deal.
In that sense, aluminum is a great value, as are most composites.
The Discos and SP3 poly boats are generally acceptable shapes, being made by reputable canoe companies, but they would not be my choice. If I only had $500, I’d find an old composite or Royalex boat and repair it, or buy aluminum.
That said, I like all canoes, except Coleman/Pelican. As far as I can tell, there are none worse.
Old Town 174 vs 18’Grumman
Both of these will take you and an XL sized buddy anywhere. The Grumman will last into the next century and you will be able to sell it for more than you paid for it. The Old Town 174 is a big capacity hull that paddles better than the Tripper or 169 which is essentially the same hull in Polyethylene. It has been made in several incarnations with cane seats, rotomolded plastic bucket seats with floatation, and web seats. It has two main drawbacks; Weight and oilcanning. 80# is optimistic, 85-88 is realistic. The oilcanning issue is not always present. Two light paddlers and no load will probably not see any oil canning. Two big 200# plus paddlers and no load will see it. Two big paddlers with a load sitting on the bottom of the hull will probably see only slight oil canning in waves. It is not a problem for the canoe and only a slight distraction for the paddlers.
As far as paddling ease, the 174 is sleeker in the bow and has a smoother hull (no projecting rivets or keel). The Grumman is fuller in the bow and will rise over waves slightly better. It will turn slightly better. In the open water the Old Town will be faster, easier to push into a wind, and easier to keep on a straight course. There will not be a huge difference with a load, but if you paddled each for an hour in the same conditions you would see the difference.
No matter which one you were to buy, get a really good portage yoke installed. The Grumman factory yoke clamps onto the center thwart and has two nice pads. It will make the canoe feel 20# lighter and give you much better control of the canoe overhead. There are a number of aftermarket yokes that can be installed in the Old Town with good non-slip pads to cushion your shoulders and keep the canoe from slipping off your shoulders. The laminated Wenonah yoke with curved pads is about the strongest and is very comfortable. I regularly carry a 23’ Minnesota IV with one.
Start with either one and watch for an end of season special from an outfitter on a Wenonah Champlain or Seneca in a lighter layup. You will know after a season with a Grumman or Old Town 174 the value of a lighter canoe.
Bill
Two guys in their late 40’s.
I’d think they can afford ANY canoe.