I live in N Alabama, am 67 yrs old, 5’7" around 175 lbs. Im looking for a light touring boat, under 50lb, most likely thermaform, to handle the big local reservoirs on the TN river for day and 1-2 night touring. There can be wind and whitecaps, and large barge wakes and pleasure boats. I want a boat 12-14’ with a normal cockpit, not oversized, that’s fast, tracks well, can be skirted. I want to get into Greenland paddles and get a roll down, so not really interested in large oversized cockpits and huge primary stability. Looking mostly at offerings from Delta, Eddyline, also Hurricane( because I have a local dealer, tho looks like they more are rec focused). Composite boats are a bit out of my budget unless I can find something used. It’s kinda coming down to the Delta 125 or 14, or Eddyline Sitka LT. People I the know, can you help me out?
12- 14" feet and “fast” are mutually exclusive.
If you are used to rockered canoes and ww kayaks speed is relative.
Same when you are talking about any type of boat.
No need to be an asshole Mr Joe Speed Racer Man.
Not being an asshole. Just pointing out the physics of displacement and laminar flow to someone in the 175 pound range. My sense is if they some idea of how to execute an efficient stroke a 12 - 14’ boat will get old really quick. And there are several WW kayaks that are decently fast. Look at events like the Green Race and what people are paddling. Those are also great boats for things like self support Canyon trips.
Canoe guy and still a WW (open boat) paddler, and with a lot of help from the folks on this board, I ended up with a P&H Capella 166 RM when I wanted a touring kayak. Much longer than you are thinking, but it will do everything you want. 12-foot strikes me as more of a rec boat then a touring boat, but you seem to know what you want.
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Im not opposed to a 16’, but weight and cost is a factor. If I can find a good used deal on a lightweight 16’-17’ composite Id prob jump on it. And I agree that most 12’ offerings seems to be more in the recc category with large cockpits even if they track reasonably well.
If I buy new I have no way to test one. It’s kinda coming down to the Delta 14 w the more rounded hull or the Sitka with a V hull. Im thinking in a shorter boat the V hull may perform better, but is it that much better tracking or quicker and worth the extra cost?
Both look like beautiful boats. The other question with a 14’ boat is can you get camping gear in it for a couple of nights without having it tied down all over the deck. I can do it in my 16’ boat, but I have to pack a lot lighter than my canoe.
Just another consideratiopn if you are really interested in getting out for some camping.
You might want to check out shops’ social. Many are dumping demos / rentals. NOC should not be a horrible drive for you. There also used to be a US Team Center of Excellence on Lake Lanier. They may have something.
Seriously consider a used boat.
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Once that new kayak hits the water it can lose up to 50% of its value. You can often find great deals on a used boat.
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You can generally sell a used boat for about what you paid for it.
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After a year or two few people still use their first boat as their primary boat. They may still keep it for certain uses or sell it.
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With minimal care a kayak can last for decades.
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Unlike cars, kayaks made in the last 15 years change little from year to year.
A short boat really limits what you can carry for camping. Consider a rudder rather than a skeg for more below deck storage.
For touring a short boat will be slower and more effort to cover distance and will often not track as well as a longer boat. For what you want to do I would suggest at least a 16’ boat. A used composite boat will generally be much lighter than a thermoformed boat.
We’re approaching the end of the season where there are usually good deals on used boats. Dealers often need to clear out this year’s models for next year’s.
I will def keep an eye out for=something used. I need to sell my pedal fishing boat(dumb idea, for me anyway)to clear up space anyway.
Dumb Question about rudders-how do you avoid moving the rudder back and forth while applying pressure with your feet when you don’t want the rudder to move? Seems like these two purposes would conflict. Is there extra pedal(s)/foot control(s) for rudder control besides the normal two?
Older kayaks used a sliding pedal design, which isn’t too popular these days and did present a problem when applying pressure on the pedals. However, almost all boats sold in the last 10 years or more use a gas pedal design. You can brace the heels of your feet on the foot pegs and you use the toe end of your feet to control the rudder angle.
Rudder vs skeg is the basis of endless wars, but both are to reduce weather or lee cocking in crosswinds. Some “purists” insist that you shouldn’t need either, but if paddling 10 miles or more in a strong crosswind, I would rather have one or the other and not need it rather than not have it. There are pros and cons for both that are discussed endlessly in other topics. It largely comes down to personal preference. Some boats need a skeg or rudder more than other boats.
Thank you that makes sense, esp after I looked up a video on “gas pedal” rudder control. Now Im not so necc down on the idea vs a skeg. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both. With a rudder you dont give up rear cargo space and can set the angle based on wind direction, with a skeg you have variable vertical adj for varying degrees of effect/drag.
If you are looking to camp out of it and maintain reasonable performance I would definitely look into longer boats, 16’ minimum IMO. Shorter and you will end up like an Okie with stuff strapped onto the deck.
175 Tsunami for performance or 145 Castine for capacity.
If you are willing to consider used, keep your eye out for a Venture Easky 15LV (discontinued model but they turn up often for $500 to $800). I’ve owned one for 15 years. Suggesting it for you because my ex boyfriend, who was about your size and also in his 60’s at the time, was a canoeist who had also been a heavy duty whitewater paddler from his teens to his mid 40’s. I loaned him the Easky a couple of times and though he had two other touring kayaks, he loved it so much that he bought one for himself eventually.
Weight is 45 pounds which is quite good for a plastic rotomold. This is because it’s a low volume (hence the LV) Greenland style hull with a low wind-shedding stern deck and a hull that provides nice speed while handling waves and even mild whitewater like a trooper . It’s faster than any 12 or 14 footer I’ve ever owned or used and I can keep pace with others in longer boats with it. Due to the Greenland style bow the waterline is more like 14 but with a 21" beam and hard chines it accelerates and turns readily – much “sportier” feel than others in its class. As for whitewater , I took it down the Class I to III Red Moshannon Creek in north Central PA twice.
By the way, I have used it almost exclusively with Greenland paddles in the years I have had it. I often use it as a loaner for friends and even beginners feel comfortable in it and enjoy the lively feel.
Made in the UK (Venture is a division of the highly regarding P & H sea kayak brand) and nicely finished and fitted out. Mine did not come with a rudder (I don’t like them anyway) but is set up with all the pin and cable molding to add one – I have never felt the kayak needed one as it tracks very well. Most that come up for sale in recent years seem to have skegs, which would be a nice feature.
Very comfortable cockpit with nice snug thigh braces and a convertible backband that folds in half to clear the coaming for a sprayskirt and for rolling. Decent sized normal cockpit (34" by 19" I think) that I can still (at age 75) enter by plopping my butt in and then drawing in each leg. The bungee paddle keeper and the metal security bar embedded in the deck for a locking cable are other nice touches. It has a clip in day hatch pod (not on it in the photo).
I’ll attach a shot of one of the instructors at Delmarva Greenland qajaq camp last year using my Easky for the landside part of his rolling clinic. Yes, it rolls well. And you can see it’s got a little bit of rocker. It has decent hatch capacity – I have easily packed it with lightweight backpacking type tent, cookstove, sleeping bag and the rest of the kit for camping with.
I did do a quick check on Facebook Marketplace but the only one currently for sale is 6 hours or so from Huntsville in Chesnee, SC for $700 (it’s an older model while they still made them under the P & H logo). I’ve driven farther than that for a boat but can understand why you might not want to.
They do pop up regularly on the used market all around the country. I’ve watched for them for years because friends and family have asked me to look out for one when they liked using mine>
Thank you very much. Sounds like a very good boat for what I want to do. I would drive tho SC today but I have another boat to ge rid of to make space before I get something for the big river. Will def keep an eye open for these.
To be clear, camping is a secondary consideration. I seriously doubt Id be doing more than one night with very minimal gear. The boat would realistically mostly be used for day tripping on the Tennessee RIver and similar impoundments. For smaller rivers with class I/II current that require some playfulness and maneuverability, multi day float trips etc, I have a canoe that will handle that stuff quite well. Im not gonna be surfing ocean waves or exploring coastal rock gardens. Im not really a fan of large cockpit rec style boats because I like to have good lower body support and the ability to use a real neoprene skirt to stay dryer in cooler weather. Plus I think learning a roll in a long touring boat would just be a cool thing to be able to do. So it seems my primary considerations for a kayak would be:
- The ability to handle large freshwater reservoir’s wind and wave conditions with the least effort with good tracking and decent speed. Manueverability and playfulness is much less important than being able to cover 10-15 mi on such water without totally exhausting my 68 yr old body.
- Weight and ease of transport. 50lb is about my limit to get in and out of the garage, on and off the 4Runner, to the water and back etc. . 16-17’ is about as long a boat as I can make room for in the garage. 14-16 is more optimal as far as garage space goes. Anything less than 14 will be more difficult to load on the tall 4Runner esp if approaching 50lb. So ideally, a speedy straight tracking boat with a low wind profile at around 16’ seems too be about ideal for my purposes.
I had a similar situation—looking to step up from a rec kayak to something more “real” and able to do 2-3 day trips, and around 14’ in size. Was trying to decide between an Eddyline Sitka LT and Delta 14. Both are thermoformed and have similar dimensions.
As chance happened, I ended up with both! I bought the Eddyline new for myself. But then my son tried it and wanted to upgrade to take trips with me, and he ended up with a used Delta 14. Both of these boats are excellent and I would recommend either. I’ll cover a few differences below in this hopes it helps you.
The Eddyline is maybe slightly more performant. I mean maybe 0.05 to 0.1 mph faster when cruising at a good clip. If I’m taking a longer trip and pacing slower I don’t notice much difference. The eddyline also has a harder chine and seems to edge a little better. It also has (small) hip pads and the delta does not. Thigh pads are about the same size on each but slightly thicker on the eddyline. Finally, I find the eddyline seat pan a bit more comfortable. If you really want to be “one with the boat”, the eddyline may be better. Both can be fitted with a skirt, but the coaming on the eddyline has a more substantial lip—it seems less likely it would slip off on the eddyline.
The Delta really shines in storage! While 6” shorter, you can store much more gear. Part of this is that my eddyline has a skeg and the delta a rudder, so there is no skeg box to work around in the delta. The Delta hatch openings are larger—about 2-3” in both dimensions on the rear. The front eddyline hatch is a 10” circle and the delta is more oblong, about 15” long and 10” wide. The day hatch opening are about the same size but the Delta’s compartment is larger. Hands down the delta is easier to load and stores more gear. Both hatch systems are similarly “waterproof”—they keep out drips and rain, but if you have serious waves or roll the boat, you should expect some water to get in. Neither will store anywhere near what the canoe does! 
Both weigh about the same—around 47 pounds and I find them easy to load on a vehicle and manage. They both track well, and the rudder and skeg help immensely if conditions are tough. I think you’d find either one easy to accelerate and keep at speed. They have similar adjustability and both are comfortable on a long haul.
Overall these are both great boats. Both are well designed and build quality is very high. If my main concern is the paddling, I’m probably taking the eddyline. If it’s the gear, I’m probably taking the delta.
Last thought: the used market can be your friend here. While there aren’t a ton out there, you can find them in good shape for a good price, especially if you are willing to drive. We got our delta for $800 (with a paddle) and it looked brand new!
Hope this helps!