Canoe vs. Kayak Posts on this site.....

Just an observation…I have been on this site for a few years now and have posted a lot.

I am an avid kayaker now adding solo canoeing to my list of interests.

As a new canoeist I have a lot of questions to ask that I have recently posted…many of which I feel stupid for asking and have been waiting to get flamed…

BUT…no burns yet!

Nice to be able to ask questions and get lots of helpful responses even to questions that may be “dumb questions”

Seems that most of my kayaking questions / comments had at least one sarcastic or demeaning remark.

Maybe there are two different personalities to this board…

I like it either way. Just never understood those who felt the need to make an unproductive and nasty comment.

I’ll keep the canoe questions coming…thanks for bearing with me while I learn a new skill!

By the way…asking dumb questions is how you get over being “dumb”!

This site and the people on it have been a great help to me. I feel like I have gone from the newby asking dumb questions (with kayaking) to someone who has knowledge to share with others now. I hope to do the same with canoeing soon…but will take a while.


what a stupid post
I cannot believe you you say something so inflammatory!! heheheheh hahaha .I have read most of your posts bowler and have yet to find one stupid.But then again my boat of choice is a canoe.

Canoeists get like 1/10th the recruits
… so they can’t afford to run any of them over :slight_smile:

People just like to be smartazz…
Don’t take it personnal. Sometimes, they are all so sensitive. Then other days they just go zoomy and social normalities are easily dispensed with. I’m kind of having a don’t give a hoot type of day myself, so who knows… I might flake out on anyone…

Insert sarcasm here
and demeaning remark here.

Didn’t have time to come up with anything good just yet…


I recall reading a few of your kayak
posts, and I don’t mean to offend you, but I think you earned some of the sarcism that you got.

You became a expert overnight and were making comments about your Valley that many thought were overblown.

So far you haven’t done that on the canoeing, but as soon as you become a overnight expert and start giving out the same type comments, I would expect that it would start again.

A word to the wise !



It is so simple!
Canoes don’t have rudders…

The dumb question…
is the one you don’t ask.

jackl you should know about overblown
comments when it comes to kayaks, you have made enough of them regarding your kayak.

In a modest way…
I will agree with Jackl…I did become pretty damn good kayaker in a short period of time. I have never made that claim , but i think it is true and I doubt that many who have paddled with me in recently in conditions would disagree. I pretty much spend all of my time paddling, asking questions, reading books, watching videos, thinking and analyzing my paddling, etc.

I guess it would be easy to figure that I am a BS artist…but I am very passionate about the things I do I do them until I get good at them. I was a two time state archery champion (first two years I competed), a two time state rifle champ (first two times I competed, two time divisional wrestling champ in high school, graduated at the top of my class from West Point, Army Ranger, etc. I have a type A personality (an obsessive compulsive one at that) and am by no means a BS artist as you might imply nor a self proclaimed authority on anything that I don’t really know a lot about, or have not thought a lot about.

I am extremely driven, ask a lot of questions, and motivated as hell. When I get interested in something it becomes my total focus.

I plan to eventually become an expert canoeist and plan to ask all the questions, do all the reading, and all the paddling to make it happen.

As far as my comments on kayaks…I would disagree that any of my comments on boats were over-blown. I hold to my comments on the Valley. Pretty damn incredible boat. Just not so good in the rough in my opinion (ironically enough).

Having owned and extensively paddled Dagger Meridian, 3 Romany Explorers, Chatham 16, Avocet, Aquanaut, Explorer HV, Valley Nordkapp LV, Kajaksport Vivianne, 2 Greenlander Pros, Kirton Inuk, standard Romany, and a Romany Surf…I have paddled a lot of boats and have paddled them in heavy surf, tide races and gale force winds…so I feel somewhat qualified to make comments about kayak handling.

Canoes…not so much! But I will get there. There is not much you can’t do when you set your mind to it.

So I will continue to be a modest newbie canoeist…but watch out because I will suck as much knowledge out of you guys as I can and apply it. I do not plan to be a newbie for long! Especially since pretty much all the strokes from kayaking transfer over pretty directly to canoeing…except the correction strokes. The canoe is just a bit wider open deck kayak that you paddle with a single blade paddle…or maybe vice versa is true!


You are Sparking Good Discusions
I for one (and I’m pretty sure there are others) have quite enjoyed the threads your questions have started.

Must have missed the yak posts. But then I often do.


you’re awesome.

I enjoy your detailed posts. You are out there doing, in the moment, and coming back here with a passion for kayaking that infuses your thoughts. Athletism joined w. intellect is a gift. I’d take one of your posts over 12 of the dreck variety that continually washes up here.

Well yeah, one of your posts IS equal to 12 of any other …JK

Now if there is one aspect worth teasing you about it is that - you know this - you are a boat whore, for sure, and you should win a special award for your

strong showing in the Classifieds…

You have the physical and mental agility and perspective that distinguishes a real athlete. It is rare. Some people will never achieve one third of what you have in thrice the time and they all too keenly know it. Too bad they have to interject a negative about it where none is needed, for it says more about them than you.

Enjoy it, don’t settle. And never apologize for excellence.

that cool
you have found an interest in canoes!

I have only been posting here about a year and am on my third kayak. Capella, nice boat, (paddled a year) Valley Q, also really nice boat, the latest is a Nordkapp LV, also great boat…

I’m undecided if I’ll sell one of my Valley’s because they are almost identical,and good all around boats.

Anyway, I’m wondering why you went through over 16 kayaks?

I also enjoy your post. But you started with and Explorer and ended up with an Explorer?

I’m just wondering if you didn’t bail out on some of your kayaks too soon?

Sure they do.
My Sawyer Loon and Summersong do.

Could be the weather
It’s spring! Everyone is happy and paddling in the sun so they don’t feel like posting snide comments about your dumb questions.

Actually there is not such thing as a dumb question; there are just dumb people. :slight_smile:

I also agree that canoeists have to be nicer or we’ll scare off our few potential new canoeists.

I got a little carried away in my post above. Should never post after having a couple of beers. Obviously as well I did take a little offense to the previous comment…but it’s all good.

My point above being that it is possible for someone to become good at something quickly. If you are an intense and driven person and willing to commit yourself to something and focused on making the effort to improve (asking questions, practicing, self-assessment, etc) then you can become very good and knowledgeable about something quickly. Developing wisdom of course takes time…but even that can be developed more quickly if you draw upon the wisdom of others!

On the excessive number of kayaks…okay I got carried away there! I admit that I a perfectionist and am a bit obsessive about things. My quest for the right kayak was partially due to changing and developing tastes about what I truly wanted to get out of paddling. For a long time I was looking for just a fast boat. I decided ultimately that is not what gives me the most pleasure. Then I was looking at having two…a longer faster boat and a play boat. Decided against that in the end too. Some of it was based on finding the boat that just fits right. And then lastly was based on a lot of seat time in the boat and evaluating performance over a wide variety of conditions from flat water, to high winds, choppy water on the bay, performance in the surf zone, tidal races, and surfing river waves.

What I found about kayaks…boat peformance is so dependent on conditions. For instance, the Valley referred to above was an amazing boat in all conditions I used it in inland…fast and maneuverable in flat water and in high winds and bay chop / wind waves…but totally different story in the larger waves in the surf zone. I had prematurely made the conclusion that the boat was good in rough water based on my use in choppy wind waves. I found you can’t extrapolate and draw a conclusion that it would also be good in surf. Just different environments. Same with my Romany Surf to some extent.

Teh boats that I owned more than one of were the ones I kept coming back to (explorer and greenlander pro). In the end I foudn that the handling of the Explorer is just the right balance for what I like to do. It performs well in all conditions and offers a mix of acceptable speed and good handling…and it is a hell of a good surfing boat (better than all the short ones ironically).

I don’t plan to get as carried away with buying canoes…although I have already bought and sold a couple.

I am quickly learning that my tastes in canoes are similar to that with kayaks. A highly specialized boat that is designed to go fast is not really for me. Something that offers a good balance of speed and still is maneuverable is better. My Osprey seems to be a good mix…the Merlin II is another I have to try.

Sorry for getting side-tracked about kayaks. Just responding to the question above in a long winded way.

Back to the topic at hand…in my kayak posts I never claimed to be an expert nor did I try to pontificate as if I knew more than others. I simply think deeply about things and like to share my thoughts. They are just that…thoughts and opinions. By sharing them it helps me to consolidate and organize my thoughts and gives me valuable feedback from others.

I have no issues with people disagreeing with me. In fact I like it. If I am wrong I want to know about it, or if there is another way to look at it I would like to appreciate that as well. However, Jack hit on it directly above when he said that people made sarcastic comments in response…I find that an inappropriate and very rude / disrespectful way to disagree with someone. I try not to do that…even on the internet!

Sites like these are for sharing of knowledge and asking questions. Hostility and disprespecful comments really don’t add anything and they only serve as a detriment to the purpose of a foum…in my humble opinion.

So thanks for listening and thanks for all the help you guys are giving me as a new canoeist. I really appreciate it. So far I have asked a lot of questions and not yet one sarcastic remark or comment and I have learned a lot.


I love my canoe and my kayak
and try not to insult any one who paddles either, BUT… if I can make a joke, I’ll do it at anyone’s expense. I do find that some paddlers take the sport way too serious. If I want to hang out with a bunch of tight arrses, I can stay at work.

I have learned a lot from these post.

At some point you have to just enjoy what you got.

So far I can handle my Nordlow comfortably up to 4’ swells, and 15 knot winds, with strong counter current conditions. I think Valley designs efficient, responsive kayaks, at the cost of some initial stability. The same is true for my Q boat.

So, I’m thinking do I really need to go out in worse conditions than that right now, and is another boat going to make that much difference?

I would much rather admit to myself I went a little overboard and learn from it, rather than think I have to be accepted as an expert. (which will never happen)

Otherwise I don’t care either.

Quote of the year:
I wish I remembered where I heard this…

“There are no stupid questions.

But there do seem to be a lot of inquisitive idiots out there!”

Please forgive me for any response I my have made over the past years. I sometimes try to insert a bit of humor, but my wording sometimes comes across as snide or sarcastic.


Good & Relevant Post

– Last Updated: Apr-29-09 11:24 AM EST –

I too returned to canoeing (for medical/surgical) reasons a few years ago. I've never been in a kayak.

As an intermediate (maybe)-level flatwater canoeist, I've received a great deal of help on this site. There are some true canoe gurus here - not many - but enough to give me good advice (which I've occasionally ignored to my regret).

And speaking of regrets, it's sad to me to return to canoeing after 50 years (when I instructed canoeing and rowing at summer camps) to find that "paddling" largely means kayaking today. But times change. As some yakers discover the challenges and possibilities of solo canoeing, the pendulum might even swing back, though I doubt if I'll live long enough to see it.

And it's frustrating and occasionally maddening when a yaker jumps in on a canoe thread and opines on something about which he (or she) hasn't a clue. But that's the exception. The site still is a valuable resource for canoeists, and I hope it remains that way.

Don't worry about the "dumb" questions. I ask them regularly. I even started a thread last week titled, "Dumb Apparel Question," lol. Within hours there were 20-some replies. Some of these were from yakers who approach the issue from a kayaking viewpoint. But that was OK. I learned some stuff and got my thoughts clarified.