That looks like it would work well
What an interesting thread. Thanks for all your replies. I prefer the ease of a Kayak but am intrigued by canoes; the closest I’ve come is with a pack-canoe/packboat and yes the 11.5ft length and 24lb weight make it a joy to portage and carry around inland. I do a lot of sea kayaking though and for that love the plastic tandems. Since we’re on the water we only have to carry them a nominal distance but the length and weight make them very stable and fast through the waves. That said a tandem kayak can turn on a dime even without full rudder which is only for trim; just get the person in front of you to “reverse” paddle in the opposite side, but then this costs you a lot of momentum. Both people paddling on the same side while edging takes a little more effort.
I get why canoes are cool though. My Canadian friend keeps telling stories of his going north in Canada to Algonquin park. > @kayamedic said:
dozens of canoe trips mostly in Ontario from Algonquin all the way 1000 miles west to Woodland Caribou where portaging is a part of camping and a kayak is not my friend.
Word, he says his dream is to invite our family with his and paddle/portage all the way to the Arctic. I’ll put this on my bucket list but the truth is I need way, way, way more spare time than I think I will ever be able to cobble together. Going to Algonquin north of their cottage for a few days sounds attractive though.
this is enough reason SantaDog and I have paddled more miles in the canoe than any human and I…Max and I did the same before there. The canoe is considerably less painful for sitting any length of time given the configuration of my bones after the number of years of collision sports and various other poor (but often fun…excluding the Greyhound bus wreck…) activities preceding my heavy paddling years. I have another friend who can’t sit on the canoe seat for that long but tolerates a fishing kayak for at least a few hours even if he will never be a distance sea-kayaker. If you get out on the water, one blade or two, maybe even something pedal powered… it really can’t be all that bad.
I started with canoes then moved to surfski since Minnesota is made for canoes and California is for kayaks.
Canoeing is much more peaceful. No drips, no splashing, you dont even need to take the paddle out of the water and can paddle silently. The single blade takes time and determination to master. Although I dont canoe much anymore (only due to lack of lakes/rivers), it will always be my first love. Nothing better than canoeing down the St Croix on a beautiful summer day. Also the aspect of tandem paddling I love. When you race or paddle with a partner consistently the bond that forms is pretty special. You know what the other person will do without a word.
I’ve never done Sit in kayaking, just doesn’t appeal to me. Too much gear, prep, overall speed potential, etc.
I am however an avid surfskiier. Nothing has been more fun than screaming down the face of a 8’ wave with a 20kt wind at your back. paddling downwind in a ski is the closest to foiling you can get without actually foiling. When the waves are up, a ski is where I want to be. High safety margin, extremely efficient, minimal gear, maximum fun. The wing paddle stroke is still very difficult to master. The stability curve is very fun to master as well. I’ve worked my way from a 19" intermediate boat on flat water down to an advanced boat (17.7") in big, messy ocean conditions. I scoffed at the elite 43cm (16.9") skis as ‘no one can paddle them’. Now, a few years into paddling ski, I tested a 43cm boat and it felt just fine. Just like with everything else, your body adaps. I’ve enjoyed the journey.
Which do I prefer? depends on the water. River and lakes=canoe. Ocean or smaller body of water with big boat wakes to ride=ski.
I will echo some other commenters! It highly depends on what I’m doing and what body of water I’m on.
If I’m on a lake, or slow moving river, then I strongly prefer a canoe. It just feels more peaceful. If I’m on the ocean, then I prefer a kayak to ride over the waves.
If I’m fishing, I actually prefer a pedal kayak. The reason why is I can keep my hands free and handle my fishing rod while still moving
Hope this helps!
I can take a nap in my canoe. The kayaks don’t sleep that well.
Some can nap on the sea kayaks.
An up-ended canoe offers better shoreline shelter during a heavy thunderstorm too. Provided it isn’t a Grumman aluminum one…
I do recall a woman I met years ago who was a scientist who regularly went on expeditions to Antarctica. She found that a kayak was the best way to travel along the coastal inlets where she gathered her data. She used a Feathercraft Klondike folding kayak which was not only easy to transport to the remote research station but the design, a large single open cockpit tandem with wide inflatable side gunwale sponson tubes, was the perfect size for her to stretch out inside the hull with a close cell foam pad and sleeping bag. She sewed a collapsible tent that fit over the boat and used it for bivouacs during her expeditions off the base.
We use the canoe for camping in Okefenokee Swamp north trail. The 10 mile chicken to chicken has no landings in between. Most of the North end trails, the Red Trail, is overgrown with Lilly’s and other veggies. A tandem canoe with single paddles paddles through that better…five hours. Changing sitting positions is easier in the canoe. HOWEVER the paddle through Billie’s lake to the State Park against a West wind would be better in a sea kayak.
The only kayaks I’ve had were a squirtboat, which plays underwater which is where I feel kayaks belong, and a playboat converted to C1. The squirtboat was a lot of fun, and ironically, terrified my kayaking friends, though I loved it, once I got a bombproof roll.
As far as kneeling…with the right canoe (for me my Dagger Reflection 15 and Swift Dumoine, I can sit, kneel or stand. I carry a couple poles for poling, kneel in the whitewater, sit in the flats, pole in the shallow stuff, and will often pole back up through the rapids while my yakker friends sit on their behinds in the one dimensional world of buttboating (intentional flame lol, I know a few yakkers with diverse skillsets who can do things an open boat just can’t do.).
I think of canoes as kind of a family thing and kayaks as a solo thing. Conditions also matter. As far as fast goes, you actually need a pretty high end kayak to be faster than a canoe with capable paddlers.
Another thing is that you can get lighter canoes cheaper than light kayaks, if you have to portage.
Both canoes and kayaks need lots of seat time and practice to get the most out of the boat. There are so many fine points to both that you have to experience it.
I use the sea kayak when we want to get somewhere . We do out and backs. We go up stream and down. We paddle into wind and wave.
Our canoe friends whine and complain about going up current or up wind. They go on rivers down stream. When we do the Rainbow river with them we shuttle the driver’s back to the start. Then after the take out down stream we paddle back upstream to our truck and they all marvel that we’d do that.
This is true. I can paddle a record of 14 miles in one day (YAY!) but the seats and boats I select have been derided as being for “lilly dippers” and “barcaloungers”. We are in good to very good shape. We are not overweight each of us with BMI <24.5. We’re definitely not “fat slobs” looking to sit around and do nothing, but I don’t know how anyone could find it not painful to sit in almost all kayak seats for more than an hour or two at the max. Especially the nicer, higher end kayaks designed with a bit more performance and efficiency in mind that you’d think are good for longer paddles (like Stellar) have VERY uncomfortable seats that become painful in no time.
Then we went on a 7 hour canoe ride in Moab about a month ago and it was fine the whole way. We stopped 3-4 times but it was much more comfortable. I couldn’t believe we lasted 7 hours without breaking our backs, getting sciatic/numb type falling asleep feelings of our legs or getting a butt ache.
One does not have to kneel, but kneeling increases stability and control. Canoeists who kneel generally do a lot of paddling and that keeps the knees and quads in ongoing shape. If one only paddles a canoe a few times a year, the knees will probably not be in shape and so more difficult. The disposition of the hull in water can greatly enhance control and being able to shift body weight using the knees greatly enhances disposition. One can do fairly well while sitting but if the knees can be kept in shape, kneeling is better.
Pag
To Not the Painter. Kneeling is more stable but if you can’t kneel ( and due to knee implants that limit flexion I cannot anymore) you can lower the seat to increase stability. Kneeling is a great quad exercise and if you can for even one minute try it… Then another day two minutes . Work up to it and use a good pad. My replacement knee has hardware that makes flexion just a little less than I would like and it is extremely painful to kneel on the apparatus
I like the forward-canted woven webbing seat in my little solo canoe. I can either sit with my legs braced ahead of me or in a kneeling position with my calves slid under the seat but much of my weight still bearing on my butt. The canted seat also forces better posture and prevents slouching.
Sorry to hear about the knee problems. I;ve been out of the instruction loop for so long, I’m not curent about how our old group is doing.
1 Like
Not an answer but a similar thought: In my world it’s not Kayak vs Canoe. It’s Kayak vs Road Bicycle. I would kayak so much more if I lived at a big body of water. I DO live near a paved road.
Canoe and Kayak varies somewhat in the boat designs.
In a kayak, the paddler is seated and uses a double-bladed paddle pulling the blade through the water on alternate sides to move forward.
In a canoe, the paddler kneels and uses a single-bladed paddle to propel the boat forward.
These are the main differences upto my knowledge
ODR…I sit on a seat in my canoe and paddle with my double bladed GP, kayak paddle. Maybe they’re the same if you just consider those items.?
Canoe and kayak designers have never really come to a consensus. But pack canoes are propelled with a double blade from a sit on the floor position. Most canoeists do not kneel at any rate.
Kayaks are fit to the person and worn like well tailored pants. Canoes do not have that locked in aspect. Kayaks in some areas are propelled with a single blade.
Does it really matter if there is a continuum must it be canoe vs kayak? Both have roots in very different ecosystems a historical note that has recently been lost. So you find people portaging kayaks in the BWCA which is canoe country for a reason
1 Like