Did you say “stabilizers”? Not in WW.
Stabilizers are for people fishing on ponds while drinking lots of beer. They are useless of a positive danger everywhere else, especially in whitewater where you have to be working your paddle way up and down the side of the boat, while passing close to rocks and snags.
I wish there was a brand of beer called
… “Sponsons.” It’d be fun to “install” a pair at the put-it, and then adjust them as necessary.
Second That On No Stabilizers!!!
Big Time!!! You don’t want anything outboard of your gunwales that can hook up in anything - the power of moving water and the forces it exerts are amazingly strong.
It doesn’t have to be white water to cause problems, either - a friend hooked the bow his kevlar Nova Craft prospector on a rock where a pond emptied into a river, had it broach and swamp, ending up with the open canoe pinned amidships and facing into the current.
While he could stand against the current in the river, they could not free the boat from the rock; over the night, it bent to the point where the midship hull bottom was touching the centre thwart, a classic ‘wrap’.
Next morning, with the aid of two long pries, they levered it off the rock; it popped right back into shape, and DIDN"T LEAK! The gelcoat had shed large patches and one gunwale snapped, but it survived to do a lot more paddling after, including a trip down Labrador’s Churchill River.
Appy … me too !!
O.T. Disco is fine for easy river stuff
– Last Updated: Nov-11-09 5:25 PM EST –
...... like occassional short term light w.w. , but if the water gets bigger and rougher for extended lengths , the O.T. Appalachian is the ticket . The Appy would make a good solo boat too , the Disco can be soloed but it's not so great at it .
The Appy is nice in rough river waters and turns quickly (high volumn and rockered) ... the Disco does not turn quick , is basically a flat bottom and will flip quickly if something goes wrong in rougher W.W. .
The Appy will be much more forgiving in rougher rapids , but won't track well (without great paddle technique) on smoother waters .
I want an Appy just for heavier waters in the river , it would be good for tripping down the rivers ... but mostly we just go out in the river and fish up and down it . So for paddling down river and depending on if it has enough rough water along the way , that might be best for the Appy . But for basic easy river water and fishing , the Disco is the better choice .
Boats like the Appy do one thing real good , they handle rough river waters . Boats like the Disco can be good for small rapid areas , but unlike the Appy are good for flat water in all cases .
I don't think you will be very comfortable in say an upper end class 2 for very long in the Disco , but in the Appy you'll feel right at home in them plus a little more .
On the stabilizers , forget about them on "any" moving water ... they are more of a danger than a bonus I think and will kill any performance your canoe had originally .
canoe
well my choices are
mad river legend 16rx $600 1.5 hour one way
98’ old town camper 16 rx $500 11 hour drive one way
wenonah rouge 16 rx $600-800
04’ mohawk intrepid 16 rx $675 5 hours one way
Repeat - why the rush
You haven’t really responded to some of the concerns here, and your suggestion that you can get around problems with stabilizers is downright alarming. I don’t care if those rapids are just 50 ft long - that’s plenty of distance for a fatal event if you don’t know what you are doing.
Sorry - but from your response here it is hard to do anything other than say skip the canoe itself for now and take some time to learn about canoeing and moving water.
canoe
– Last Updated: Nov-12-09 1:08 PM EST –
this is for you celia i want a canoe that i can fish in and do over night trips in i want one that is real stable in that i can stand up in when im in florida to flyfish one i can play in by myself solo and if my dogs and wife are with me if i see something that i dont want my wife and dogs to go in i'm not a dumb person i will get out and carry the thing around it if i'm by myself then fine i will play but not with my dogs in it i have to much money invested in my dogs and wife to be that stuped i'm not going go out and find a class 3 or 5 rapid to go in there ant any fish in it so there ant no reason for me to be there i'm a fisherman me and my wife just want to relax and fish and swim i will be putting it on and off our car vw passat my self so the weight thing i would wont it to be on the light side but i'm not worried about that when i go and look at a river to were i want to take the canoe the first thing i will be looking at is how calm it is so i can avode the rapids the river were i'm at is pretty shallow but if i go solo then i wont to put some airbags in it so i can play BY MYSELF now is there any info that i'm missing i would love to find a appalachain but i cant find a used one
punctuation is your friend…
…I have no clue what you said because I gave up trying to follow it.
If you want to run the New river with two dogs and your wife with your experience level, I have dibs on your truck.
what canoe(s) fit these specs. ??
– Last Updated: Nov-12-09 8:14 PM EST –
....... 16'-17' length ,
35"-37" width ,
1-1/2" rocker , symetrical (just some very minor rocker) ,
mildest arch bottom possible , or displacement style = rounded (but not a flat bottom) ,
14"-15" depth at center (not a shallow volumn cruiser but a higher volumn river boat) ,
and made in Rx (not a polyethylene) ,
plastic gunnels and plain outfitting ...
I think I just described an Appalachian with much less rocker ??
the answers to this will help find the canoe you will be happy with doing the things you want to do ,
a canoe with these characteristics will have just slightly less "initial" stability as compared to a flat bottom (but you will learn to stand in it just fine for fishing) ... but the arch bottom will be a plus in performance parameters and much less likely to have any oil canning in hot weather .
maybe the gang can kick in and say which canoes meet these specs. ??
good luck and get the boat that will make you happy , pay more for it if need be ... the initial cost will soon fade into the sunset while your paddling and enjoying all that goes with it !! ... As much as I love the Appy , I don't think it's the boat for you , as I said before I consider the Appy a specialized river runner because it has lots of rocker , it's a dancer and loves to be danced with .
canoe
this is for pilotwingz- THANK YOU VERY MUCH i may not be the best typer in the world but damn i think i described everything under the sun to just have fun in a canoe, but i cant find a used appalachain no where… so i am deciding between 2 now that are near me- a mohawk 16ft intrepid rx 04’ $675 (5 hrs away)or a mad river legend 16ft rx around $600 (1.5 hour away) dont have the year though no older than 99’. thank you alot for that information but i am still going to keep my eye out for a appalacahin
M.R. Legend 16 Rx …
– Last Updated: Nov-12-09 11:35 PM EST –
...... 33-1/2" wide , 16' , Rx , "moderate" rocker , shallow arch haul , 72 lbs. , symmetrical ,
don't know anything about this canoe other than the specs. from the M.R. site ... and for whatever reason they don't give stern/bow height or center height , so can't get an idea of it's volumn (low , med. , high) , my guess is med.-high volumn ??
It does have the appearance of a more flared bow/stern entry which I like (similar to an Appy) the wider flared ends will help raise the ends (ride up) on rougher water , as opposed to a sharper entry (which cuts in more = less lift) ... this wider flared ends make for a dryer ride in heavier waters too ,
it's a little narrower at 33-1/2" , so expect a bit faster and a bit less initial stability (due to width) , no big deal when sitting (more of deal for standing though)
having "moderate" rocker it should be a "tiny" dancer compared to an Appy (max rocker big dancer) ,
perhaps the narrower width and only moderate rocker will help it track straighter compared to an Appy , I think so ,
I would use it for fishing out in the river (why not !!) , enjoy it's performance for paddling purposes on moving water , but expect to sit mostly when casting ... should make a real nice river tandem for you and wife to paddle (not going to be a slug) ... my guess is it will also make a nice part time solo boat too !! ... that brings me to a question about your wife's enthusiasm for such things as canoe sports , does she think she'll be more of a driver or a rider given the choice , "she has to answer this , not you" (this is a capable looking tandem that will allow her to be a "master" of the paddle in the bow , which will mean alot to you when tandem paddling , so don't boss her around up there but rather give her space to learn how to do her thing in style and with class , cause she ain't no dummy and don't forget that , it takes a little while to learn this tandem paddle stuff , right !!) , "patience" and understanding are the "keys" to success here , so don't forget that either , keep it enjoyable for both of you always , arguments and tensions make not a fun experience !!
The price and distance seems reasonable if it's in very good condition ... a comparison is a 1984 Old Town Rx 16'-10" (Acadia) canoe I picked up used for $400. that was dirty as hell but in very good condition otherwise .
If you are hot on this Legend , why not ask to take it for a spin before haggle and purchase , see what you think about it and go from there ?? Test drives of canoes are definately not out of the question if you are a serious buyer (ask the seller to go tandem with ya or better yet get your wife to go for a spin with ya and see what she thinks) . Any serious seller who is asking $600. for a canoe shouldn't mind you running off with it for some hours or a day (leave $500. with them as good faith to be returned if you choose a no buy) . Do a little cell phone report to the seller while you're out there , give em something to think about before final offer ,
so I'm just trying to help ya a little here samandroxy , not that I know this Legend canoe at all personally ... it would be good for some others (who do know) to qualify or disqualify the things I've mentioned here ...
you are going to be OK , it will all work out for ya I'm sure , and btw this Legend 16' Rx looks to be a step up from the bunny slopes for a starter tandem canoe ... enjoy !!
ps., ... 1st things 1st ... buy and "Wear Always" the best PFD's you can get , test fit in store (don't cut corners on this one , you'll hate yourself later if you do) !!
2nd , get paddles that are on the lighter side rather than the heavier (Carlisles BeaverTail paddles w/urethane tip guards are "real good" inexpensive wood paddles - buy direct from Old Town over the phone) ... you'll build a paddle collection as time goes on but the 8" Carlisle BeaverTails are a real good place to start and compare too . (54" and 57" , get both)
Wenonah Rouge 16 Rx …
– Last Updated: Nov-13-09 1:13 AM EST –
........ never paddled this one either , but looks to be in the same class as the Appalachian , which I have spent a "little" time in running down river .
3" of rocker , deep high volumn , wide , "short" foot print shallow arch haul ... these type boats are "SPECIALIZED" designs for "bouncing" down river in heavy fast turbulent waters , big dancing , turning , bobing , spinning and lots of movement ... specialized for W.W. use I'd say ... not a nice family type river fishing and exploring stuff canoe ... and again a "flat water" (read lake , slow river , reservour) pain in the ass canoe (read no fun on slow and flater waters because these type boats don't want to go in straight line without lots of constant effort on the paddles , they like to turn and bounce around , that's what they are made for IMHO)!!
Here again it would be good for others who have more time in these type canoes to chim in case my judgements are off more than on .
canoe
that was great info!! i will be trying out the intrepid sun for about 8 miles i think so i will know by then if i like it.My wife cant paddle sun cause she has just got her stappes out so i will be doing it by myself so thats fine.but she will provbally sit back and let me do most of the paddling myself anyway but i dont mind that.We will probally float about 50 feet and fish and me i’ll get out and wade around.so she will probally sun bath and read her book.But there is alot of trout streams around here that are real shallow but when there is alot of rain like right now .i would love to take this boat by myself and play cause i know its all flat no rapids just about 2 foot.just something to do and play and get out of the house.But yes i wont skimp on the pfd’s thats for sure!!!
canoe
Intrepid 16 (73 lbs) - Mohawk
Length: 16’ 2"
Beam at gunwale: 36", Beam at 4" waterline: 34.5"
Depth: at bow 21.5", at center 14", at stern 21".
approx. weight: 73 lbs.( Royalex), 66 lbs. (R-84). Estimated capacity: 850 lbs.
16% X 16’ 2" = 31.04" (minimum width at 4" waterline using 16% rule) is beam at guwale the width
It’ll never carry 850 pounds. Careful
about using capacity estimates based on a 6" freeboard. Most canoes handle very badly when so loaded, and take on water too easily.
I have a ~17’, 16" deep Bluewater Chippewa, and Bluewater rates its capacity at about 550 pounds.
once you get the canoe …
– Last Updated: Nov-13-09 4:13 PM EST –
...... the next few important items to have along with you (after PFD's and paddles) ... are good rain suits , a fishing rod , a pair of field glasses and a little digi. camera ,
oh , that's 4 things , ha ha
then some lunch and snacks , then more stuff like camp gear , warm cloths when colder , more paddles (ha ha) , river anchore , storage dry bags , more stuff , more stuff ...
hey , have fun and take your time , time is what this activity is all about anyway ... good time !!