Looking for suggestions on what clothing to wear while kayaking in colder weather. I’ll define colder weather as 35 - 50 degrees. I’m not sure what the water temperature will be or if that even matters. Paddling will be limited to lakes and possibly some smaller rivers, day trips only. I’m sure layering is key, but I don’t want to overdress and be too warm. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Water temp first
The point of dressing for any paddling should be dressing for if you capsize and take a swim. Air temps between freezing and 50 degrees should also get your attention, but if you are starting out wondering if water temp matters you are looking at the wrong end of the tunnel. Start with that - what would they be?
try and dress for the water
You may never capsize in your life but cold water is life threatning. It’s more than just being cold - cold shock and hypothermia are real killers. Dressing for the air is easy. It’s tough to dress for an aerobic activity and still be dressed for the water. That’s why paddlers like breathable drysuits. A farmer John will give you some protection for a while. Always start out paddling slow and easy and let your body chemistry catch up otherwise you’ll overheat very quickly dressed for the air.
check out this link for info:
http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/expertcenter/how-to-dress/How-to-Dress-1.shtml
Also - here’s one I wrote years back:
http://www.outer-island.com/FarmerJohnFallacy.html
yes, but…
– Last Updated: Oct-20-06 10:30 AM EST –
I know I've been on this board for too long to post this. But I have some problem with this "dress for water" approach all along, at least while doing small ponds and rivers.
I've kayaked about 15 years on and off. I've capsized many times, in surf, in white waters A LOT, while learning some strokes or boat control move, and gettting in and out of the kayak occasionally. But really, I've never capsized in flat water while just cruising along. I simply don't. For every capsize, there's always a distinctive cause. And I just don't see those causes in paddling along on flat water.
Since two people had already warned the original poster to "dress for water", I'm going to be the contrarian here, to ask the obvious question. When was the last time you capsize in flat water? And how did it happen?
Thanks Jaybabina
Nice links and good info. Sounds like a wetsuit is a good place to start with proper head, foot and hand protection. Once I get a handle on how to gauge water temps I’ll adjust accordingly.
So abc,
What would you wear in air temps between 35-50 degrees on flat water?
A Better Question…
– Last Updated: Oct-20-06 12:50 PM EST –
ABC Wrote:
"yes, but, I know I've been on this board for too long to post this. But I have some problem with this "dress for water" approach all along, at least while doing small ponds and rivers.
I've kayaked about 15 years on and off. I've capsized many times, in surf, in white waters A LOT, while learning some strokes or boat control move, and gettting in and out of the kayak occasionally. But really, I've never capsized in flat water while just cruising along. I simply don't. For every capsize, there's always a distinctive cause. And I just don't see those causes in paddling along on flat water.
Since two people had already warned the original poster to "dress for water", I'm going to be the contrarian here, to ask the obvious question. When was the last time you capsize in flat water? And how did it happen?
"
Ghostship wrote:
A Better Question,
When was the last time you heard of someone die in a cold-temp paddling accident? How did THAT happen? The vast majority die because they were not properly dressed to survive immersion.
Feel free to play Russian Roulette all you want, but the only thing more idiotic than thinking it's safe to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger simply because you haven't died from doing it yet, is to welcome the ignorant to play along.
Capsizing in flat water
I haven’t capsized in flat stuff just paddling myself, but have come close to it many times when I was first learning. Good boats and a light body weight kept me upright. All it would have taken is a small diff in me or my responses or boat.
I know a lot of people who do get into boats and spend a lot of their time capsizing at first - you can’t count on any particular behavior from someone new to the game.
I have been hypothermic - luckily not the final deep stages of it but enough to have lost my ability to take necessary measures because I couldn’t think. At all. It took remarkably little time to hit that stage, and it was pure dumb luck that I didn’t end up worse. After that experience, sweating from being too warm is just fine compared to the risks of hypothermia.
To answer ABC
You’re right - it sometimes seems like over-caution. However.
Year before last - two people overturned in a canoe early spring on a dead calm lake in MA. No PFD’s - frigid water - they died. Sometimes they try to change seating positon and go over.
A friend of mine - high level BCU instructor was doing a quick boat trial in winter on a dead calm 8 ft wide intercoastal stream. He got out to adjust the backband, slipped on ice and fell in wearing street clothes. He didn’t think he could make the 1 mile trip back he was so cold.
I guess it depends what your priorties are. It’s wiser to advise people about the dangers of cold shock rather than assume they will never be in the water. On the CT river it can be dead flat calm and a hour later white caps and 3 footers. The problem is that flat water paddlers get brave and daring based on past experiences and assume they will never capsize.
different stage of hypothermic
>I have been hypothermic - luckily not the final deep stages of it but enough to have lost my ability to take necessary measures because I couldn’t think. <
Being a white water boater, I kayak in pretty cold water. After all, spring is the only time many of the rivers are runnable.
So, capsizing in cold water is nothing new to me. That was mostly before I had a solid roll. Yes, I’ve experienced reduced body functionality that would have made self-rescue questionable. At that point, I knew enough to abandon the boat and head for shore. I was able to swam ashore, and the boat simply drifted into the next eddy. I never came close to lossing my ability to think.
Still, that was running rapids. Not paddling along in flat water.
sweating from being too warm is just fine compared to the risks of hypothermia.<
If it’s just sweating, that’s easy. When it’s between $600 drysuit and staying home. I dare to question the “need” for such extreem, based on my own experience of running spring white water with ice floating on shore.
BTW, to put things into proper prospective, I’m only 110 lb and very low fat content. So it’s not like I have unusually good cold tolerance.
What would you wear in air temps between
– Last Updated: Oct-20-06 11:31 AM EST –
Wet suit, gloves, bootie, plus a jacket of some kind (or dry top, now that I have one).
If I'm running rapid, when capsize is a near certainty, I'll add a hood. In that case, I plan to roll up, most of the time. The wet suit and such are for swimming to shore in case I fail on my roll.
[EDIT]
At 35-50 degree AIR, a wet suit will NOT be too uncomfortably warm anyway.
Hard to tell the parameters
– Last Updated: Oct-20-06 12:13 PM EST –
I'd agree that if you can't rustle up the clothing sufficient to the job it's time to try another activity. But it's hard to tell the parameters of where/when this poster wants to paddle right now, so I am tending towards more conservative rather than less.
Also, they are talking about paddling in 35-50 air temps, the bottom end of which go with true winter. So the cumulative temp issue might be well into drysuit territory.
I have tremendous respect for anyone who does WW. No way I could stay up with you guys out there. But if you have done that kind of paddling, you likely have much better balance and less likelihood of going over in flat water than say my brother-in-law who will get into a boat and, near as we can tell, hasn't found one yet that he can't capsize. Including "impossible" ones to capsize.
I only ask these question
– Last Updated: Oct-20-06 12:40 PM EST –
after the original poster has been duely informed of the "dress for water" principle. And that he had in fact taken heart of such warnings already.
I'd say your brother-in-law probably would never consider kayaking in winter, knowing full well he'll have to swim in such cold water for sure. But I guess that's really not my point.
I do get a little tired of (some) people who, under the banner of "err on the conservative side", put so much emphasis on gears (namely drysuit). To me, again, started out on the white water end, judgement of when NOT go to the water is much more important than gear. We WW boater have to make that decision every single time we hit the water. If the flow is too high, we don't go. If the flow is too low, making it dangereous on certain rapid, we don't go. Even if we are already on the river, if we found the rapid way different than we expected, we walk, etc... So I'm in the habit of making that evaluation every time I get into a boat.
So the same principle applies when it comes to sea kayaking. If the weather is unstable, which means the wind might pick up and kick up some wave, don't go. So on and so forth... When the pond is flat and the wind is calm, a pleasure cruise along its shore can be had without shelling out for a $600 drysuit first. That, was my point.
The original poster ask what kind of clothing to wear. He should definnitely start with a wet suit. But I think he would do even better start paying attention to when to go out and when NOT, before he start thinking about other, more exotic "gears". In fact, I fear sometimes more gear simply give people a false sense of security.
OK, off my soap box now.
The answer is clear.
Yes, the original poster was well advised to dress for water temps. You chose to directly contradict that advise:
“Since two people had already warned the original poster to “dress for water”, I’m going to be the contrarian here, to ask the obvious question. When was the last time you capsize in flat water? And how did it happen?”
Your point was clear; paddlers do not need to dress for immersion if their risk of capsizing is limited. I feel you were flat out wrong for doing so. You’re more than welcome to your own opinion, and you may paddle naked with the polar bears any time you like. But the fact remains, advising other paddlers to NOT dress for immersion will only contribute to more paddling deaths.
You say:
“I do get a little tired of (some) people who, under the banner of “err on the conservative side”, put so much emphasis on gears (namely drysuit)” and suggest it’s better to “start paying attention to when to go out and when NOT, before he start thinking about other, more exotic “gears”. In fact, I fear sometimes more gear simply give people a false sense of security.”
I say, you need to make up your mind. Either advise people to go out improperly dressed and trust in their abilities in calm water to save them (talk about a false sense of security!!), or to save money by not purchasing proper gear and instead not go out at all.
Seeing as how the poster inquired as to the requirements for cold weather paddling, it’s obvious they already possess an understanding of their limitations, and wished to be properly equipped to survive in more extreme paddling environments.
This being the case, telling them to NOT dress properly, and/or to NOT paddle at all, is a dangerous response to a serious question. The correct answer is to dress for immersion, even if that dress is a drysuit.
on the soapbox
The axiom of dressing for water temperature IS a valid one. Be it an ocean, pond, lake or small river. If the water is cold, dress for the worst case scenario. The conditons on any body of water do not remain static, but change as the day progresses.
If you don’t have the gear that fit’s the conditions, stay off the water. I look for conditions…I’m experienced now and over time have accumulated gear that has extended my paddling season. My Goretex dry suit was $900. not $600., the liner I got was another $100. Money well spent! Much more comfortable than my wet suit. Made good use of the drysuit and liner last week on a long paddle in a howling wind.
Andy
I’m with you ABC but expect to get
hammered by the folks that don’t realize that some folks listen to the weather reports, and stay close enough to shore to wade into the beach if for some reason they capsize.
I think that if a poster asks the question “what should I wear in cold water/weather?”, there are more questions that have to be answered by that poster before some one can give them hard and fast advice on what they should be wearing.
Cheers,
jackL
Jayak
While we’re on the topic of “False sense of security”, Jayak…
I’d recommend that you consider all the advise you can get from those that successfully survive cold-water immersion, then develop a cold-weather paddling system that you think will work. Then, before you go out for a paddle, go for a swim. Stay in the water at least 30 minutes, if not longer. This will allow you to test whether your clothing system will allow you to survive in the water at the temps you’ll be paddling in. Then adjust accordingly.
dry vs wet suit
I prefer to wear a dry suit, but when I am on a paddle with lots of rock gardening I use a wetsuit. I do so because when a dry suit fails (ripped on a mussel covered rock that breaker just dragged you over) it’s pretty bad (now, not only are you in the water but your drysuit is filling with said cold water. A rip in a wet suit, eh, no biggie).
for the paddling I do (year round, norcal coast, surf launches) dressing for immersion is a no brainer. Regardless of skill level, a wet exit is a possibility (in some cases it makes sense to get out of the boat ASAP), and surf launches add another unknown.
-Thomas
Thanks for the support, Jack.?
The original poster had taken very seriously the advice to “dress for water”. So I’m not worry about giving out confusing advice to the ignorant. He’s got a pretty good head on his shoulder. He’s well on his way to make the proper preparation for his own safety.
So many of the others were so knee-jerk about any advice that are not ultra conservative. It’s like they so under-estimate the ability of the original poster and worry that he will run out onto the lake naked because of my advice!!!
?
Why swim 30 minutes or longer if the shore is 10 yards away?
What do you know about the original poster that I don’t?