sweat factor - true
That’s why a moisture managing layer like capilene or light merino Smartwool next to the skin is so important under the drysuit. It keeps your skin comfortable by absorbing the surface dampness and your body heat even causes some of the trapped sweat to vaporize and pass through the fabric.
Not all wet suits are the same
This issue has come up before and I suggest you do a search of this board for past posts. A farmer john wetsuit is inadequate no matter what you put on top of it and most of comments about wet suits would apply. But full wetsuits used by surfers are another matter. Skip NRS and go to any of several surf shops on the web. The brands mentioned above are all good.
Tropos
My semi-dry suit is older Tropos and my more recent dry pants are the newer, better Tropos. The diff I see so far is that the Tropos in the semi-dry suit requires more careful maintenance. I have to turn the legs inside out to protect the booties quite religiously as I am getting out of the semi-dry suit, but the newer stuff seems to start airing out a bit even if I forget to do it until I get home. If the suit you are talking about is the newer Tropos, it is definitely hardier than the first version.
As to breathability, I also end up wet inside, hence the change of underlayers. How much depends on the temperatures and how hard I’ve worked.
Interestingly, I have an older Kokatat suit made for the Coast Guard from 2003, based on details of its assembly, with GoreTex that is decidedly less breathable than the current stuff. It works out to be a great winter suit, like for air temps well below freezing (I tend to avoid wet work by the time the water temp is 36 degrees…) partly because it doesn’t breathe as well. I’d be freezing my tail off in the older, thinner Tropos suit on days that this suit is still keeping me warm. Yes my underlayers come out wet, but at those temps I have thicker ones that also can wick out a lot more moisture before they get sodden.
I understand that people are concerned about the details of breathability, but for those of us in colder northern climates you just buy clothing around that issue and deal with it. Damp but warm is still better than hypothermia.
By the way, one thing that wasn’t mentioned above is that you can use the same stuff under a dry suit that you would use for other winter sports like snowshoeing etc - no need to buy anything specialized if you are already active outdoors.
antipersperant helps
I’ve been using a strong antiperspirant mainly on my feet and sometimes around the waist area since those areas can’t breathe as well regardless of the fabric. Combining this with unzipping during breaks and I’m generally pretty dry even when the air is a bit warmer.
Here’s the really important thing…
I have a wardrobe of neoprene, semi-dry, and dry wear, and I mix and match depending on the conditions. Kokatat drysuit is my mainstay from Fall to Spring, but sometimes in the summer too.
That said, the best money I ever spent was on a decent pair of neoprene mitts and a neoprene surf hood.
If your hands and head get really cold, it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing on your core.
It’s strange to see people paddling in winter wearing a $1000 drysuit, but with nothing more than a baseball cap on their head.
Full sleeve wetsuit warning !
A wetsuit is meant to be used WET, not dry.
The long sleeves on a wetsuit will chaff you silly paddling.
That’s why paddlers use Farmer John style wetsuits
– with the armpits wide open and just straps.
Simply not true
Surfing wet suits do not chafe. I have one. It works fine.
Maybe brand specific
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 4:07 PM EST –
I cut the sleeves off mine - I wasn't a happy camper.
Perhaps thickness and manufacturer make a big difference.
yup, surf wetsuits are flexible
I got an Excel full 3/4mm surfer wetsuit and it is supercomfortable in the shoulders, arms and around the waist, not had any chafing problems while paddling at all. Unless you are really squeamish about used stuff, there are terrific deals on wetsuits to be found on Ebay. Got the Excel for only $30, looked like it had been barely used. Just be sure and check the size charts on the original manufacturer websites – some common brands like Body Glove and Camaro run extremely small. I can also highly recommend American Wave’s wetsuits (made in USA) for flexibility and comfort (have a shorty from them) and I think all theirs are on sale right now.
Anti-chaff
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 4:13 PM EST –
Neoprene-safe products like BodyGlide or SportsSlick
came on the market for a good reason.
I know I'm not the only one who had issues with neoprene
http://www.trisports.com/bod13oz.html
The key is flexibility
Not all wetsuits are flexible enough for paddling. Chafing comes from the neoprene sliding around because they are too stiff. Good brands of surfing wetsuits are super flexible and don’t force movement.
Surfing wetsuits and chafing
– Last Updated: Aug-18-11 7:18 PM EST –
Surf-oriented wetsuits come in a big variety of neoprenes, and the better ones are way stretchier than typical kayaking-oriented neoprene.
That said, I have gotten some chafing under the armpits from the "fleece" lining of a 3mm full wetsuit that otherwise is wonderful. The chafing does not result from the neoprene itself, but from reinforcements to seams and other little raised areas.
Applying BodyGlide (comes in a rub-on stick like antiperspirant) took care of the chafing. It also makes removing the damp wetsuit easier.
The suit has zip ankles and wrists, which I love. They make putting the suit on/off easier, and they allow a bit of extra cooling.
This suit is my next-warmest gear after the drysuit. If it's too warm for the 3mm full wetsuit, I wear a thin neoprene (surfer's) long-sleeve top and long-legged surfing Farmer Jane with a short chest zip (nice). A bit warmer water, and then it's the shorty 2mm wetsuit.
The OP would do well to actually go for a swim in the water to get an idea of personal tolerance for cold water.
I have one also
wetsuit top. Never had any problems with chafing.
how cold is cold?
Sub-65? Obviously skills come into play but trying to nail down that temperature.
Hydroskin–– Breathable? Chafe-y?
I don’t expect Hydroskin to be any kind of replacement for a wetsuit or drysuit, but it’s been mentioned a few times as a base layer and/or as an main/outer layer for when the water’s not cold.
I just have no experience with the stuff… it’s just very thin (0.5mm) neoprene, right? Would something like that be at all breathable? Would it chafe?
Just curious. One more weapon in the arsenal… right now, to date, my base layer has been merino wool.
My take
I actually like a Hydroskin shorty for warm/hot days with cool water. I will probably wear it a little more next year now that my roll is good and I don’t expect any long swims. But, I have intentionally swam rapids with it in 55 to 60 degree water and found it to be good enough for 5 to 10 minutes in the water. That’s also 80 to 90 degree days, so warming up was not a challenge after the swim.
merino wool is fine under a drysuit
But what about under a wetsuit?
Nothing underneath
except a swim suit for a full wet suit. Colder water? Get a thicker suit or a suit with a hood. You only need something underneath if you are using a farmer john/jane.
3mm Farmer John was what I was thinking
… so for said 3mm FJ, I assume a rashguard of short-sleeved Hydroskin or merino wool is fine for most conditions?