Cotton - The Science of Sucking
Cotton is horrible on the water and most places.
http://equipped.outdoors.org/2011/03/why-does-cotton-absorb-so-much-water.html
My material of choice under a drysuit
http://www.ossystems.com/undergarments/index.html
My colder water gear goes
65-70 degF Hydroskin Farmer John + Polypro Top
60-65 degF Hydroskin Farmer John +
Hydroskin Long Sleeve Top
55-60 degF 3 mm Farmer John wetsuit +
Polypro + Drytop
50-55 degF 3 mm Farmer John wetsuit +
Hydroskin Long Sleeve top + Drytop
Temperatures are all water temp. I will add a drytop or paddling jacket to the higher temp situations if the air temp is cold or if it is cool and windy. This is far open water paddling. For river paddling where I have the chance to shore without a long swim everything is moved up a level (less heavy clothing for that temp).
I am from the south and do not experience that much cold water routinely so I tend to wear more gear that most when I do paddle in colder water.
Mark
Oversimplufied
What you need on any given day depends on a number of factors including water temp, air temp, cloud cover, wind conditions, distance from shore, type of water, etc.
55 degree water is pretty cool water, but there’s a lot of difference between a sunny, 90 degree day on the Hiwassee and a 40 degree day with clouds, wind, and possible rain on a big lake in WI. The water temp might be exactly the same, but your ability to get to shore and out of trouble might be entirely different.
Even the formulae where they add water and air temp is really more of a rule of thumb. I can always think of conditions where the rule fails miserably.
Experience will tell you what works for you. In the meantime, try to slightly overdress using layers. If you get hot, the cool water is right there and you can always shed a layer if the day warms up.
And ultimately each person has a different tolerance and different natural insulation (fat layers). I know guys that do fine all winter with little more than a shorty wetsuit and others that won’t go out without their full drysuit.
Drysuit
For 20F weather, get a drysuit. A wetsuit, unless you get a really really thick one, with a drytop isn’t enough. Plus get something neoprene to cover your head.
Drysuit / Wetsuit
The most expensive dry suit on the market costs about $1000. Mine is about 10 years old, so I figure it has cost me about $100 to be warm and comfortable. Most people I know that don’t use dry suits typically spend $100 per year on new clothing choices in an attempt to tweak their paddling outfit.
We paddle in Michigan, (St. Clair River) A couple of years ago, our group met one week after New Years day to have a wet exit practice. The idea was to wear our normal winter paddling attire, do wet-exits, rolls, etc, and then remain in the water to see how long clothing choices would keep us functional.
One guy found that the pogies he had been using were a poor choice. As soon as he rolled over for a wet exit, his hands became too numb for him to locate his grab loop. I found that my dry suit and normal paddling clothing lets me stay in the icy water for about 25 minutes.
Most winter paddlers I have talked to have never actually tested their winter paddling gear by spending some time in the actual water they paddle in.
as far as warm air…
i paddle WW, and on a 70 degree day, cold water, and a lot of single blade play I will sweat like crazy. T-shirt soaked. NRS extreme, but no matter what you get you’re not breathing thru the pfd. If I don’t be a spaz, playing everything, I stay pretty dry underneath. Unfortunately, unless running at my limits, I’m a playtime spaz, but a spare t-shirt at the end of a run is an easy tradeoff. Plus ya’ don’t look like scuba-Pete (Seinfeld) after the paddle, and can go get a pizza w/o scaring the other patrons.
Kokatat or NRS
It seems like a drysuit in either one of these brands is the way to go. Is the Kokatat tropos entry suit dry enough and breathable? What suit (any brand) would offer the most breathability and comfort that’s up to $600. How is ravenspring’s customer service if something doesn’t fit properly. Thank you and I feel like I’m learning a lot after each post
Dry Pants
I’ve never used them, but a friend bought some and thought they were worse than not wearing them at all. Her experience was water got in through the waist, and then was trapped in the pant leg.
Kokatat
HAs an exceptionally good reputation for quality and customer service.
I have a tropos drysuit, and my clothes get soaked with sweat… but then I sweat a lot when I’m active.
For those doing a wetsuit/drytop combo, tropos works fine. The wetsuit doesn’t breathe anyways, so the only advantage of Gore-tex is that it will last longer.
Spring is the most dangerous time…
…of the year. During the winter, the low air temps make the dangers of paddling obvious and force people to dress accordingly. In the spring, the water is still dangerously cold, but paddlers are lulled into complacency by the warm air temps.
If you live in a northern climate, you will find that a dry suit is the best investment you’ll ever make in paddling clothing. The comfort, convenience and protection it affords will have you paddling more frequently and enjoying it more.
It’s not “fine to wear a T-shirt”…
…if the air is 70 and the water is cold. You need protection from the cold water temps. Yeah, it can be a pain to dress for it, but that’s just the way it is.
I’ve found that if the water temp is low, I can comfortably wear a dry suit up to ~75 degrees. On the water, the air temp near the surface is lower than on land, due to the cooling effect of the water. There’s also typically some degree of air movement, which also helps to keep you cool. Getting wet periodically by rolling or sculling on your back works well to regulate one’s temperature.
Breathability profiles of fabric
Let's not forget GoreTex had a monopoly for years and years
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf
Leading the pack of tested materials was the eVent
laminate which, depending on relative humidity, was
between 1.3 and 3 times more breathable than the next
best material, Gore-Tex XCR.
Winter has dry cold air - little humidity.
Materials like Gore-Tex, Sympatex, etc.,
have much better water vapor transport
properties when they are in a humid environment
than when they are in a dry environment.
--Many are used as rain gear for hiking.
Breathable refers to Water Vapor
- not droplets of sweat.
The suits are waterproof, so no "droplets" pass
-only water vapor molecules passing thru a membrane.
It's quite possible to be drenched with wet sweat
wearing a breathable fabric drysuit on the water.
sweat factor - true
That’s why a moisture managing layer like capilene or light merino Smartwool next to the skin is so important under the drysuit. It keeps your skin comfortable by absorbing the surface dampness and your body heat even causes some of the trapped sweat to vaporize and pass through the fabric.
Not all wet suits are the same
This issue has come up before and I suggest you do a search of this board for past posts. A farmer john wetsuit is inadequate no matter what you put on top of it and most of comments about wet suits would apply. But full wetsuits used by surfers are another matter. Skip NRS and go to any of several surf shops on the web. The brands mentioned above are all good.
Tropos
My semi-dry suit is older Tropos and my more recent dry pants are the newer, better Tropos. The diff I see so far is that the Tropos in the semi-dry suit requires more careful maintenance. I have to turn the legs inside out to protect the booties quite religiously as I am getting out of the semi-dry suit, but the newer stuff seems to start airing out a bit even if I forget to do it until I get home. If the suit you are talking about is the newer Tropos, it is definitely hardier than the first version.
As to breathability, I also end up wet inside, hence the change of underlayers. How much depends on the temperatures and how hard I’ve worked.
Interestingly, I have an older Kokatat suit made for the Coast Guard from 2003, based on details of its assembly, with GoreTex that is decidedly less breathable than the current stuff. It works out to be a great winter suit, like for air temps well below freezing (I tend to avoid wet work by the time the water temp is 36 degrees…) partly because it doesn’t breathe as well. I’d be freezing my tail off in the older, thinner Tropos suit on days that this suit is still keeping me warm. Yes my underlayers come out wet, but at those temps I have thicker ones that also can wick out a lot more moisture before they get sodden.
I understand that people are concerned about the details of breathability, but for those of us in colder northern climates you just buy clothing around that issue and deal with it. Damp but warm is still better than hypothermia.
By the way, one thing that wasn’t mentioned above is that you can use the same stuff under a dry suit that you would use for other winter sports like snowshoeing etc - no need to buy anything specialized if you are already active outdoors.
antipersperant helps
I’ve been using a strong antiperspirant mainly on my feet and sometimes around the waist area since those areas can’t breathe as well regardless of the fabric. Combining this with unzipping during breaks and I’m generally pretty dry even when the air is a bit warmer.
Here’s the really important thing…
I have a wardrobe of neoprene, semi-dry, and dry wear, and I mix and match depending on the conditions. Kokatat drysuit is my mainstay from Fall to Spring, but sometimes in the summer too.
That said, the best money I ever spent was on a decent pair of neoprene mitts and a neoprene surf hood.
If your hands and head get really cold, it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing on your core.
It’s strange to see people paddling in winter wearing a $1000 drysuit, but with nothing more than a baseball cap on their head.
Full sleeve wetsuit warning !
A wetsuit is meant to be used WET, not dry.
The long sleeves on a wetsuit will chaff you silly paddling.
That’s why paddlers use Farmer John style wetsuits
– with the armpits wide open and just straps.
Simply not true
Surfing wet suits do not chafe. I have one. It works fine.
Maybe brand specific
I cut the sleeves off mine - I wasn't a happy camper.
Perhaps thickness and manufacturer make a big difference.