rollers
im not the most experienced roller around but I do a layback roll in a tempest 165 and the boat just follows me around like its not there. super smooth. People I paddle with who roll alot and many variations are using valleys and romany and xplorer
Tahe Marine Greenland
– Last Updated: Mar-18-09 11:22 AM EST –
http://tahemarine.se/Greenland.htm
1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7L9inm_Xk&feature=channel_page
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6XDebv-ABk&feature=channel
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G2CH2u2dY0&feature=channel
the last is my 12 year old daughters first time rolling (after the Nordkapp)
Tahe Marine
It is a great looking qajaq. Are they available on the East Coast of the USA to demo? How do they do in the surf and in rough water?
nice
rolls!
yep lots of folks think the T rolls amazingly EZ! I gotta agree.
steve
Tahe Marine Greenland
– Last Updated: Mar-18-09 2:20 PM EST –
More info;
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44715&sid=d04f2ee80ea2b67dc973a3ce2cb3e88e
info in English;
http://www.shorehamseakayaks.co.uk/html/greenland.html
Sterling Ice Kap
When Maligiaq comes to the Northwest, I hear he uses the Sterling Ice Kap which is built out of Bellingham, Washington.
Both Sterling’s Illusion and Ice Kap are designed with Greenland rolling in mind. Excellent boats with the best quality I have seen.
Great video
I found this video doing a search on youtube. Great stuff! It really drew me to the Wildy Tempest 165. I was able to pull off my first hand roll in one of them.
Sadly, the 165 is a bit too small for me. And the 170 seems a bit too big.
I will be keeping an eye out for the Wilderness Tempest 168. 
Absolute horrid soundtrack!
but the videos are good. The boat looks very impressive.
a way
to make the 165 fit a bit better is moving the seat back a hair. It opens up leg/ thigh room and makes the boat feel bigger.
we’ve heard a few demands for the proverbial 168 tho! yeah just what the dealers need…another SKU!
=:-p
steve
Tempest 165
The first time I was in a Tempest 165 was for rolling/static bracing/etc demo this time last year. I was VERY impressed with how easy such skills were in the boat.
If you can only have one boat
and you want to do all of the following
- Open coast day touring
- Long boat surfing in the ocean
- Surfing standing waves in tidal races
- Rock gardening
- Greenland rolling
- BCU 4/5 star training/assessment
What boat would that be?
For a good Greenland rolling boat, most people seem to focused on low back deck, but I think a low fore deck is also very important since over a dozen of the Greenland rolls are forward finishing rolls, e.g. more points are awarded to a forward finishing hand roll or norsaq roll than one that finishes on the backdeck.
General question?
– Last Updated: Mar-20-09 9:37 AM EST –
Not sure who this is directed at since it is under my post. If me, it's a bit of a conundrum because I am an average sized female. So there is a more limited pick of a do-everything boat that includes Greenland work than for someone larger.
One boat which does all of that OK for someone my size, and is paddled by a few women of similar size, is the NDK Romany. I'd try and give a couple of others some hard demo time in mixed conditions - Tempest 165, the Eliza in the right size, check out if Point 65 has a boat for my size and, and if I can ever find one to try, a Tide Race S boat.
The problem I run into is the rescue platform part - something that you may want to consider if you are going the BCU 4/5 route. Many of the boats that I love for a lot of purposes, like my little P&H Vela, are tuned for so low a volume that they are a major handful when you have to rescue the average paddler who is bigger than me. We put an "average sized paddler" by kayak maker standards - 6' 1" and 190 pounds - on the back of an Avocet LV I was trying this last summer. While I pulled it off I wouldn't want to count on managing it in conditions when I was already tired.
In contrast, I had to carry someone out from rocks a couple of summers ago in my Explorer LV in a real capsize. Not-a-test. While I agree I was pushing too much boat for my size all day, the boat was easy to manage upright while the panicked rescuee did all kinds of interesting things on my back deck.
I've known of BCU coaches who make their final decision on a go-to boat about its ease as a rescue platform - if I was coaching/leading as an income I'd likely put that at the front of the list myself. The Romany scores well as a rescue platform because of its low deck and fairly high primary stability. Though it sets up a bow wake sooner than some of the longer boats.
Luckily we have multiple boats and I don't have to make that choice. If you are looking at the higher number BCU route, you may want to drop Greenland off the list of criteria and solve that with something low volume for you and used.
There is a reason that the NDK Explorer ruled for years in Great Britain among BCU coaches, more recently the Valley Aquanaut. These boats work adequately in the required conditions and allow you to think about your paddling rather than managing the boat. Again, you may want to think about that as a criteria given your goals.
Thanks Celia for the feedback
Especially on the rescue platform part. I’m 5’7" and 140 lb. I’ve been thinking about the Explorer LV but have not had the chance to demo one (the nearest NDK dealer is 500 miles away
How good is the Explorer LV for Greenland rolling? I have paddled the Elaho DS, Tempest 165 and Impex OI. I found that the Tempest is smoother to roll than the Elaho, and it’s easier to pull off more advanced rolls in the OI (e.g. brick roll and offside hand-roll). How does the Explorer LV compared to these three and the Romany? Please note that in term of rollability, I’m referring to the most difficult roll you can perform in a particular production sea kayak, e.g., an elbow roll, or no-hand (straight-jack) roll.
Thanks in advance!
Explorer LV
– Last Updated: Mar-20-09 9:39 AM EST –
Are you clear on how LV the Explorer LV actually is? It is exactly the same hull as the regular one, with a lowered deck and a smaller cockpit. So the boat's true volume as far as the paddler weight it's tuned for is exactly the same as the regular Explorer, and for that matter the Explorer HV.
I'm 5'4" and 135 pounds. So, like me, you are under-sized for the volume of the Explorer hull. But you're likely to love the fit of the lowered deck and Xtra small cockpit. It certainly helps for rolling.
Unfortunately I can't comment on how well it works for the rolls you mention because I can't do them myself - regardless of boat. In general the Explorer is a very friendly boat for Greenland work, as is the Romany. But I don't know if you'd need a more tuned-down volume for stuff like the strait-jacket or elbow rolls. For that purpose, the Romany would likely be the better boat of the two.
How far do you want to go?
– Last Updated: Mar-20-09 10:38 AM EST –
Dubside does the complete Greenland roll repertoire in a fat commercial SOF. Almost all people who want to really learn the more difficult rolls resort to home built boats that allow for easier rolling. It was mentioned that Greg Stamer does all the rolls in an Anas. There's very few paddlers who can do that.
I would start to learn them in what you have then go to a Greenland paddling meet and try some of the boats so you can see how much different they are to do those things and see if it's worth building one. Many GP rolling enthusiasts use Stitch and Glue boats as well as SOF's.
Most people who start on that path, find that being able to lay on the back deck a necessity. That requires a low back deck or a very flexible spine.
confused on the chines
I’m a bit confused on the chines and rolling ease. It sounds like two of the nicer boats for rolling, both with low decks, are the Romany and Outer Island. But the chines as well as bottom are very different on these two boats.
I would not get hung up on the chines.
As Jay just mentioned, if you are focusing on rolling you should get a roll specific boat like a SOF. If you are focusing on kayaking, Roy’s suggestion was to get a good kayak that is a decent roller. The OI is a very good roller, the Romany does not strike me as being as strong of a roller that the OI is. I thought my Q boat was a great rolling boat, I just could not get used to the stability and the fit was causing foot numbness. Sof’s are hard chined, and many good rollers are soft chined. Find a kayak you like with a reasonably low back deck and you should be fine. I thought the Q-boat was going to be the perfect boat for me, the lesson here is to paddle the boats and roll them before you buy (the key here being a lengthy paddle). As you can see from the posts, there are many good options(BBK,Aquanaut/Avocet,OI,Tempest, Q-Boat,Tahe,Greenlander, ETC, ETC, ETC). If you plan on challenging Dubside, you might want to build one. Bill
If you plan on challenging Dubside
you better get a Pungo and learn about 30 rolls with it.
2nding “do not get hung up wi chines”
– Last Updated: Mar-25-09 5:06 PM EST –
There are many factors effecting how a boat rolls.
Simple reference to hard or soft chined says little about the boats performance.
If talking of the chine's impact one has to consider:
*how far forward and aft the chine profile is carried,
*how prounounced is the chine,
*does the chine flare noticably at and/or above the waterline
*Is it hard edge hard chine (like an Anas), soft edge hard chine (like a Romany), hard edge soft chine (Elaho), wholly soft chine (OI, Nordkapp)
*etc...
If all one wants to do in the boat is Greenland maneuvers then get a rolling specific boat. If one would like to actually paddle the boat somewhere get a boat which is supportive of learning Greenland skills, but is also enjoyable and appropriate to your other desired uses.
Mostly you have to play in boats - lots of boats. That is a very fun activity!