Comparing Pintail vs. Avocet?

prom queens great aunt or grandmother
Yup if that great aunt or grandmother is Marlene Detrich :wink:

thanks for the comments!
I’m sure you have a lot more experience in kayaks than myself.



I also find my Q boat an bit more stable in the surf zone. I’m still an aspiring ocean kayaker, but some of what I consider challenging beam conditions is fast moving 3.5’ swells that also have a strong counter punch. At that point there is no point in edging. At times it’s also impossible to brace on the steep face of a wave over my head. The Nordlow was a bit more less stable on the face of a breaking wave that was over my head, but it did fine.



I haven’t had any other kayaks out in those kind of conditions.



At any rate if I were suggesting a good boat to grow into (for the OP) it would be a used 22 inch beam with some secondary and primary. (Romney, Capella, Impex, ) then in a year sell it for a little less than you paid.

Then after a few used boats treat yourself to a new one. :wink:

Questions
"At that point there is no point in edging."



Are you saying in a hard chined boat you feel no need to lean into a breaking beam wave?



“At times it’s also impossible to brace on the steep face of a wave over my head.”



Why can’t you brace in a wave higher than your head?


a boat that has more “well-defined” cha
"…a boat that has more “well-defined” characteristic, yet without being a “specialist” boat."



A Romany is hard to beat for such characteristics.

dynamic condions

– Last Updated: May-04-09 7:08 PM EST –

require dynamic response.

Yes, there are times when I don't brace or edge into a wave. It's not that I can't or don't lean straight into a beaker head first with low brace in other situations.

What I was saying was that it is difficult to assess the exact situations, skill, and responsiveness on the internet. (especially when someone doesn't fill out their profile or be clear about what conditions they paddle in or level they are at)

I was pretty clear that I'm an aspiring sea kayaker, yet there are times when even experts get dumped in the ocean, and it's not because they don't know how to brace.


I feel I have offered my best advice here.

Edit: In normals (predictable) situations I do lean and brace into waves. That's more about skill and technique and not the kayak. (Avocet vs Pentail, Nordlow, AA, Q, etc) But in dynamic situations so there is no point in edging when I'm about to get rocked violently in both directions. I try to give it as much edge as possible and don't brace or skull when it's not necessary, but like I said, even the experts can get caught off guard.








Romany
I’ve paddled the Romany a few times. I hadn’t pushed it during those test paddles.



But I was unable to get the hang of the rope skeg. It’s all down or all up. Unlike a cable slider skeg contro, which I can fine tune from 1/2 down to 1/4 or even a tiny bit of skeg showing…



Makes a huge difference when there’s cross wind from coupled with wave from another direction.

rope skeg

– Last Updated: May-04-09 11:58 PM EST –

Actually you can adjust a rope skeg as much as a slider (if the skeg is working properly). That is a big if with NDK boats. The rope skeg on my Aquanaut has been flawless (though rarely used) in the nearly 6 years of having the boat. However, the rope skeg on my Romany is another matter.

I know two paddlers who paddle skegless Romanys and swear they don't miss having one. I've rarely deployed the skeg on my Romany.

The Romany is a great boat to 'push.' Like the Avocet it is a direct descendant of the Pintail. It is a great boat in tide races and surf.

rope skeg
I’ll agree that a slider is simpler to adjust, but I’ve had no problem making fine adjustments with my rope skeg. I tied a knot in the line that hits the jam cleat at 1/2 skeg, and hits the fairlead at full skeg. All I’ve used so far is 1/4 skeg, which is easy to do with the knot an inch ahead of the jam cleat.

"I tied a knot in the line"
I’ve done the same marking positions - fully deployed, half, quarter. I’ve also put a small ball (sailing line stop) to give me a firmer grip if needed for retracting the skeg.

grip knot
I don’t know what it’s called (and am therefore having trouble finding an image of it on the internet) but instead of a line-stopper ball, I tied a knot that is like the coil part of a noose knot tied right at the end of the line. Make a bight in the line, about 4 inches from the end. Hold about an inch of the doubled line, and start coiling the loose end around the doubled line towards the bight. When you get to the end of the bight, tuck the loose end into that bight (which is just peeking out from the end of your coil) and snug the coil down to lock that end in the bight. It takes some fiddling to get things to line up tightly right at the end. Not too bulky, good grip, and sharp looking.



(certainly more work than tying a ball at the end, and of dubious improvement over that option :))

If that’s the case…
…the new Tahe Marine “Greenland” is the prom queen’s long-legged supermodel cousin. As much as I think the AA has been the hottest looking boat on the market for years, the “Greenland” eclipses it in terms of sex appeal, plus it’s lighter, longer and narrower with a lower foredeck. It also has a foredeck day hatch that’s probably more useful on the water than traditional day hatches.



According to the US importer, they’re due here 6/2. It will be interesting to see what they look like “in the flesh”, but people who have paddled them have had glowing praise. There are threads on the Qajaq USA forum about it and several videos on YouTube.



http://www.taheusa.com/tahe/flash%20movies/TaheViewingPage.php?Number=10


Nordkapps can be made to be forgiving
All you have to do is lower the seat. They’re intentionally set high in order to make the boat easier to edge when fully loaded with camping gear, but that makes the boat much less stable when lightly loaded. Lowering the seat an inch absolutely transforms the boat, making it very comfortable and stable in rough conditions with a light load.

I’ve done so with my Nordlow
I lowered the seat in my Nordkapp LV by a half inch (it was a full inch off the floor of the boat) and it made a noticeable difference. I still wouldn’t call the boat ‘forgiving’ when compared to my other boats (Aquanaut & Romany) nor most friends’ (Explorer, Xcite, Avocet, Tempest, etc).



I would not wish to lower it anymore as the rear coaming is already notably higher than I prefer.

The high aft deck…
…is the one major flaw in the Nordkapp design. A “rolling recess” behind the coaming would be a big improvement without reducing the cargo capacity much.

“rolling recess” behind the coaming
I have been surprised for years that more sea kayaks do not have such a recess. My first sea kayak, an Elaho DS, has such a recess so that the rear coaming is not only quite low, but is lower than the rear deck. I got very used to easily laying out flat on the aft deck to relax.



As noted, such a recess does not compromise storage capacity, it also avoids another downside of low rear decks - scooping water in edged turns.

Thanks for the tip
I’ll give the Romany another spin the next time I head out.



To be honest, I “like” soft chine boats. Kind of for the same reason I like slider cable skegs: finer control. I guess that gives up on something. But wait, what is that something I’m giving up? I’ve never quite understand that part…



I’m not being flipan. I can “feel” what I like and dislike. I just try to understand the correlation of what I like and dislike to the design intent.