Not intentionally, sorry.
You do not fit the second group well, in my opinion.
We could be more affirmative I believe.
To be honest, I started the topic and I have a habit of responding to each individual post instead of making a one general comment, so I honestly thought you were referring to the proliferation of postsâŚand hurt my feelings. But your vagueness and mental gymnastics were going in another direction.
But thereâs an upcharge for spellchecking. 
I hate upcharges. Their so annoying. 
I noticed that, but she seemed sensitive so I did not point it out.
Right, and my main point is that those opinions are outdated and not of much value today. There was a time when Hurricaneâs kayaks were quite a bit inferior to Eddyline and Delta and had a reputation for failure. Then they considerably upped their game. Thatâs on par with advances in the whole industry, seen in improvements in materials, designs, hatch covers, seats, etc. Your original question was, âIs this [coaming failure] a common problem with these boats?â The answer is: No. Todayâs Hurricane kayaks are good quality, very well designed, and reliable in the conditions theyâre designed for. Were you asking about old Santees? Kayakhank responded, âWelcome to the world of older Hurricane kayaks,â which may be the answer you were looking for.
This is sort of like if you asked, âAre Chevrolets junk compared to Toyotas?â Answer: The previous generation of Chevrolets was junk compared to Toyotas. With the industry bailout during the 2008 economic crisis, car manufacturers were required by the government to up their game, and todayâs Chevrolets are greatly improved. Example: The Chevy Sonic is one of the top cars in the subcompact hatchback category, close to the Honda Fit and Kia Soul.
But many people have retained memories of Chevroletâs poor reputation compared to Honda and Toyota, just like some people remember the old Hurricanes. Same thing for Subarus: Iâll never buy one after going through a nightmare with the infamous failed head gaskets. My opinion of Subaru is stuck in that old memory.
By the way, Hurricane has excellent customer service, in case something goes wrong.
EXACTLYâŚWhew
We are talking about older model Hurricanes, specifically in my case, an older model Santee 116. . âIs this a common problem with these boats?ââŚIs this a common problem with older Santee 116s, that is it. Further extrapolation is not necessary or intended. The OP stated specifically, this was an older Santee116 and as you aptly pointed out, KayakHank stated specifically â Welcome to the world of Older Hurricanes.â Then you have, â Those opinions are outdated and not of much value today.â Whether me or you like it or not, there are a plethora of Older Hurricanes out there ( I own one) and information on Older Hurricanes is indeed useful and of value because there are still many of them around. So owners can know what to expect, how to treat the boat and for anyone considering buying one. There is no extrapolation as to the present state of affairs. Hurricanes may very well be vastly improved as you say and I have no reason to doubt that, but they must be careful, if they are going to approach the price of an Eddyline or a Delta they are going to have to produce a boat like the Eddyline or Delta.
I was becoming friends with the general manager of Hurricane⌠until she got mad at me.
Alright, mjac, here is the definitive answer: Delta. End of story. Best hull, material is at least as good as Eddylineâs, lower price. Caveat: you might not like the cockpit if youâre a larger person. My opinion is that Deltaâs bottom material is thicker than Eddylineâs, but I canât prove that because this information is an industry secret.
Next question: If you were to buy a new (or used) kayak, what would you be using it for? The Delta 12.10 is good for just about everything (except white water and running into rocks): Slow-moving, twisting rivers and marshes, lakes, ponds, ocean. The Delta 14 is quite a bit faster, one of the best thermoformed kayaks on the market, but heavier and more expensive.
Pretentious and opinionated (per Buffalo Alice)? No, based on owning the following thermoformed kayaks (and testing several others):
- Delta 12.10 (two)
- Delta 14
- Eddyline Merlin and Journey
- Hurricane Sojourn 135 (two)
- Current Designs Kestrel 140 (good cockpit for large person)
- Swift Kiwassa 12.6 (exorbitant price, very unstable hull)
9 kayaks, 3 brands, 5 models. I donât weigh in on things Iâm not knowledgeable about.
[quote=âmjac, post:47, topic:129423, full:trueâ]
EXACTLYâŚWhew [/quote]
Ohhhhhhh . . . . Gotcha, gotcha. Hereâs why I didnât pick up on that: because looking at your photos, your kayak just needs to be scrapped. I assumed you wanted to replace it.
Agree. Theyâve done this with their hull design and the deck material, but not necessarily the bottom material (subjective impression without knowing specs).
I aptly posted pictures of the type of paddling I have done and will do predominantly. Your list of conditions in the second paragraph just about covers it. I want/ need to stay around 12â because that is what fits into the van, I like a boat that is easy to carry, handle and load and many lagoons and bayous are laced with overhanging branches and downed trees the you must navigate around. I am somewhat restricted because I am not going to waltz on out and buy a new kayak, those prices are abhorrent and I believe they did some gouging during the pandemic. I am going to get what I can pick up used, even damaged and repair it. I particularly enjoy doing that. So I may not be able to be too picky, unless I show a lot of patience. Your information is very valuable in that regard, but I am going to pick up a deal.
Buffalo_Alice calls the shots.
Donât you be talking about my Kayak like that, there is nothing Flex Tape canât fix.
I should have understood, it took 3 tries to get you to understand it was the previous owners that were taking the Santee down the Okatoma. I was going to give up after four.
Damn you and Buffalo_Alice, I am supposed to be out fixing the hydraulic steering line on my truck.
I personally donât want to keep a thermoformed kayak more than about 10 years. I feel there just isnât enough evidence about what happens to the material over time, and itâs already prone to cracking. Iâve been told that when the white interior turns yellow, thatâs a sign of UV damage and the material is drying out and getting brittle. I donât want to take a chance with that, especially in remote areas. I contacted ABS plastic manufacturers and was not able to find any scientific information about the longevity of the material. Thereâs isnât much anecdotal evidence either. This is just my personal take on this. I want to err on the side of caution.
Alright, the dust is settling on the fisticuffs and weâre making progress. I see you donât plan to buy a new kayak now, but if you ever do and if you want thermormed, I think there is only one really good choice for you: the Delta 12.10. The only thing I want to warn you about is the downed trees you mention. With any thermoformed hull, you need to be quite aware of whatâs under you, which isnât easy in moving water. However, of all the brands weâve discussed, Delta is the brand I would trust the most in those conditions. I would look for a used Delta 12.10 and also look at dealers right nowâyou might get lucky and find one left from last season and make an offer on it.
You can pay $1200 today for a new rotomolded kayak. A Delta 12.10, whether new or used, would be 10 times better than your Santee in every way. Itâs also a great camping kayak. I donât mean to diss your Santee . . . the photos do that well enough. 
The dust never settlesâŚIt is inevitable in the type of paddling I do and want to do, you are going to go over a downed tree or stump no matter how familiar you are with the waterway especially after a hurricane. I know that little circuit in the pictures like the back of my hand and it still happens. That is why I posed the serious question, is there a more reliable Thermoform, not bullet proof, more reliable. I have gone over logs with the Santee and literally watched the bottom of the boat deform to it, I was amazed the bottom did not crack with how much it flexed. You can not diss my Santee, me and my Santee are brothers.
That is why we consult KayakHank, to fill the void of scientific knowledge. I think you are completely right about thermoforms and their reliable lifespan, my great disadvantage to putting everything in context, is I do not know how old this boat is, I would love to find out, it would tell me a lot, but the serial number has been wiped out. I wouldnât go on too long, Buffalo_Alice is watching.
Message to Alice, if you beat WaterBird over the head a few times, he does tend to come around. Sage advice.
Full disclosure: I have heard similar words myself.
You are something else. Just the right degree of illusion and nuance.
It sounds like you would be well served by having two kayaksâone old beater, possibly reinforced on the bottom, for rivers with obstacles and one newer, possibly more expensive one for more benign conditions. A rotomolded plus a thermoformed would be another way to go. I think a lot of people have two or more kayaks for this reason.
I canât recall if youâve said what draws you to thermoformed. Have you researched what is the lightest rotomolded kayak in the length you want?
Ideally, I would like to find the toughest Thermoform I can and make the best of it, which was the entire purpose of this thread. I hate the word â thread,â I have to find a suitable replacement. Conversations are not â Threads.â
I canât stand Roto Molded Boats, it is the whole kayaking experience, the glimmer of the deck, the glide, the lightness, the maneuverability, the ability to carve, instant paddle response, quick acceleration, speed, rigidity, clean, nothing less. Roto Mold - White Water, yes.