I’ve been looking at the Liquid Logic remix xp 10 and the Jackson Rouge 10. These both have a drop down skeg to help with tracking when not in white water. I’m going to try and get in both of these before I decide, but what do you guys think? Any experience on these?
any thoughts
thanks
jb
check out the
Pyranha fusion too, its a great boat
I like the Fusion too
but I have only paddled and rolled it a bit on flat water.
I did speak to a guy who paddled one on quite difficult (Class IV) whitewater, and he said it was very capable.
These boats are not nearly as fast as sea kayaks or some of the better recreational touring kayaks. In fact, I don’t think they are as fast as some of the old rotomolded long whitewater boats like the Dagger Response, Perception Pirouette or Perception Dancer, although the skegs help with tracking and are beneficial in cross winds.
Dagger Crossover
– Last Updated: Nov-27-11 5:40 PM EST –
Dagger made a great "hybrid" kayak a few years back
It was named the Dagger Crossover, shown in blue below
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID23194/images/Epic_Endurance_Kayak.JPG
The plumb bow and smooth bottom made it a lot of fun.
At the rear was a removable skeg via a thumbscrew.
Links not working
for me.
Fixed link ?
Does this one work
Had a paddling buddy that gave very
serious consideration to both of these. I went with him to a couple of canoe shops to check them out. They are both very well made and well desinged boats. I especially like the rebound feature in the front bulkheads. Class III and above.
what kind of water?
Think through where you will want to paddle this boat. There are definite flat water trade offs for a kayak that will perform well in class III. So even though they are versatile, they will not be much fun on a lake or on a slow river IMO. I recently got an XP10 and only use it on relatively fast water – where the water is moving the boat along at a good clip.
Xp10
– Last Updated: Nov-29-11 11:51 AM EST –
I bought a used XP10 last winter when I took a pool class with my local club. I wanted something I could use on flats and whitewater since my husband didn't want too many boats in the garage. I sold my rec boat and booted a kid out of my cockpit. :) I've used the XP10 on pretty much the whole Lehigh River, Mongaup on a 2 tube release and most recently the Tohickon Creek Class III+ fall release. It is a VERY STABLE boat. I've only swam 3 times this season...one doesn't count because I plowed into someone who stopped to surf and took him out plus myself! ;) The other 2 times were in/out of eddies in squirly water. It's not super agile if you are rock picking (coming from a 1st seasoner), so I found myself getting beached on some rocks while trying to follow my play boat friends! It's HEAVY! 50lbs of dead weight. My problem is I'm 260, so I need a bigger boat. I'm hoping to downsize at some point or get a cheap play boat to mess with. I will always keep this boat for a river runner and lake boat. I do feel that I drag behind on lake trips with people who paddle touring boats. (but it's a great workout, so I'll take it!) Also...skeg or no skeg...this thing can turn on a dime in the lake. As the season went on, I am becomming better at controlling it. I surf it with no problem as well. Haven't tried side surfing, back surfing....but straight up surfing is great! This thing will flip (instantly)if you don't edge on eddy turns and peel outs found that out practicing at our practice spot early in the season. The rear hatch DOES LEAK. I keep floatation in there (as well as behind my seat and 2 up in the bow). I also bungee the hatch down as a precaution. This boat catches up quick on the river when you are paddling with smaller boats and you quickly find yourself up someone's butt. I've gotten good and holding back when I get too close! All in all this (and I'm sure any hybrid) is a good choice, but not necessarily the be all end all....I chose 1 to do all, but I will eventually add another boat to the quiver if I can sneak it past my husband! :) Oh, and I've only worked on my roll about 3 sessions. I haven't mastered it yet, but I can hip snap this baby no problem so once I get my paddle movement correct, I'm sure it will be easy.
It has potential for conversion to c-1
as a river runner. Trouble with most ww kayaks is that they don’t have the firm stability a c-1 paddler likes for a working platform.
With the kayak seat removed, and the foot pedestal or pegs in the bow, it should be a few pounds lighter. C-1 paddlers don’t need as much rocker, either. The leverage kneeling higher with a single blade will force maneuvers that are harder for a kayaker. And less rocker means more speed, badly needed by c-1 paddlers.
thanks for the info
I’ll be using this on the river most of the time. class 1-3 based on the water level. and I’ll have it on some small ponds and lakes as well. I also have a loon 120 if I need more of a touring boat. I though about just getting a creek boat, but I’m not planing on hitting any big rapids. Love the look of the jeffe for Liquid logic tho.
JB
I’d be curious
to try that Rogue as a river runner. it appears (from photos & videos anyway) that it has more of a planing hull, a narrower bow with a V-entry and a better defined chine, than either the Remix XP or the Fusion.
XP10…
– Last Updated: Dec-01-11 8:25 PM EST –
..there was a discussion on the XP 10 a while back , which i contributed too....the XP is basically a good boat/stable..u can find utube vids on Grand canyon trip with them. they tend to plow if u try to paddle them too fast in calmer waters. spin on a dime with the skeg up. common complaint is the cockpit is too large for some people and they tend to feel "lost" in it. others have gone to the XP9 instead for a better fit. If i can find the convo in Archives ..i'll post a link here. I did have probs with skeg not dropping down but they worked on it and all is well for the moment. Skegs seem to be problematic for a lot of boats though. I also would like to add that some of the skegged crossovers, I looked at, have pretty flimsy skegs ..XP is about the best of the skeg systems.
ADDED link:
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1434391
Update: Grand Canyon Video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syBInW19LpM
Good points. Almost all modern ww
kayaks tend to plow if paddled hard. The XP10 should be less inclined to plow than many.
The upturned bow of ww kayaks helps them ride over waves and holes, and keeps them from purling when front-surfing waves. A crossover kayak tends to be a compromise in this respect. I have an old Noah kayak that has a long, narrow bow and will match most rec kayaks for cruising speed. And the bow is so narrow that it doesn’t purl when wave surfing.
lots of good info…
I Do wonder about the Jackson Rouge… Doesn’t seam like to many people have one. Looks like a nice boat too.
jb
thought of another one
another “crossover” I’ll throw in, is the Venture Flex 11. It is sort of the sister boat of the Pyranha Fusion but in a more rec-boat type hull. It would do much better on flatwater but can also handle easy rapids (II+). I think it would make a very fun river/creek-oriented day kayak.
Just depends how far to the whitewater end of the spectrum you want to go!
Why would you be?
Cross over kayak? They make most of us smile, not frown!
cross over kayak
holy roller?
Oof, good one!
Though some would insist that’s an X-rescue.