Current Designs new small boats

4-Panel does not have to = box
What you say really only applies to a slab-sided/flat bottomed 4 panel design. A floating box. Many designs are like this, many are not.



My SOF is closer to round overall than square. Shaded area of drawing at link below shows approximate cross section at widest/flattest point of my SOF as it compares to a bit boxier hull, an arc, and a rectangle (small flats are my 3/4" stringers). If I could radius those corners a little isn’t wouldn’t really do much:



http://www.appliedeccentrics.com/kayak/hardchine.jpg



You can get nearly any range of performance from sharp or soft panel intersections. The drag differnce is typically quite small on otherwise similar hulls* - and only really measurable/important for more elite paddlers/racers.



*Nick Schade is the ONLY designer I know with same basic desing in both S&G and strip form - and he has posted on the differences being imperceptable (below the noise level) when paddling them. Yes, differences exist in the computer numbers, but pretty meaningless. Other comparisons, between different designs - are useless.



I do agree chine choice should be based on construction techinque - not mythical performance attributes (again, you can get anything from either). If doing a stripper or other composite I’d have a hard time justifying hard chines unless building for a market/customer who wanted that look. Flat panels/hard corners are weaker and have no real benefit in those materials. If doing SOF or S&G I would not feel I was losing much of anything by having sharper intersections.

Dr_Disco…
I think you lost me on “then go to a molded hull”. The Caribu-S IS a molded hull. Not sure what you are refering to here.

I am not LeeG
I only play him on TV. :slight_smile:

Caribou Molded…
Yes, the current CD Caribou S is made from a mold based on the original Caribou that was a four panel S&G hull.

made in China, hmmmmmm
anyone want to buy a Kestrel?

I was dismayed to discover via the wescoastpaddlers thread link that CD boats are now made in China and then there was a mini-discussion about the global economy…I’m glad my next is on the way from Australia, at least we’ve been allies with them for a while.

Hmmm…
“ally” status…



Did we recently stop buying oil from the mideast, from Venezula…?



So, we buy a couple of glass boats from Australia… Yup, that’s going to keep us afloat. :wink:



Global economy. Yup.



sing


canoe body
like Grayhawk said the Caribou was originally made out of four panels of 4mm plywood.

My entire point is that the Caribou is already a well balanced design that is pretty fast and that if you wanted faster just making it skinnier and longer will introduce negative handling characteristics to a larger degree than going straight to molded hull shapes that aren’t derived by flat panels.

My $.02 is that at this point(faster than Caribou) it’s pretty much the motor or using ruddered molded hulls like Epic/Qcc or more race specific designs.

I’d be curious to see an A/B test of a Caribou and OneOceanKayaks Cirrus to see how they compare.

rocker
what’s the rocker like on your SOF?

Hmmm… II
by the monetary criteria China is our best buddy ( rating 233 out of 763 for the year 2006 ) and is getting better and better.

Never Mind That…
China is quickly becoming our bigger creditors. Charge that kayak on a credit card? Likely, you’re borrowing from China. :wink:



sing

3" forward, 2" aft (+/-) - but numbers…
… alone don’t tell much. Is that a lot or a little? Spread out across 6 meters it’s doen’t seem like a lot, but I haven’t wanted for more - and think more in this case would only add drag (every case is different).



Overall hullform matters more - with everything in context. Those 3"/2" numbers also apply only to the “primary keel”. I also have “secondary keels” in the form of the chines (and soft chine/no chine hulls have this too - just not so visually defined - but no less active).



On my SOF the chines are just 14" apart at widest point and just a few inches underwater. With fairly slight edging I’m on them more than the keel. I spend time on/between all of them unless straightline paddling on dead flat water. The chines have slightly tighter arc over a little less length than the keel- so a little tighter curve to pivot on and gets ends out a littel more. On a long thin kayak this is not a lot - but it is still another couple inches of rocker when needed and is useful.



Edging either way works with this kayak (as it is NOT carving!) - choice being dependent on what’s going on. If I keep edging more I get more over on the gunwales - and more off the hull. OK for spinning in place/going slow - but no added advantage at speed as submerged shape is no longer fair due to low flat deck - and turbulence is created from deck lines, cockpit, rear deck, etc. Some freeboard is good - and this is part of why I kept some and did not drop the deck heights/volume down to “rolling qajaq” levels.



Basically, it has enough rocker to turn well enough without edging at all. Add a little edging and it’s almost too intuitive to call turning. It just goes wherever I’m thinking. Most who have tried it say it feels more like a 17 footer. It’s easier to turn than quite a few 17.5-18’ sea kayaks I’ve paddled.

Let’s Make a Deal

– Last Updated: Feb-22-07 6:49 PM EST –

some Americans will buy a few Epic kayaks, and China will buy Chrysler ;-)

IIRC the have about $12 Billion in trade surplus w. the rest of the world (as of Dec 06)

Yes and No
Some of the CD boats( Hybred Kestrels) are being made in China. The rest of the touring line is being made in the factory in Winona.