Dagger Approach 10 vs Remix XP 10 ?

Advice
#1

Dagger Approach 10 vs Remix XP 10 ?



Hi, I hope this question isn’t a report, but does anyone have any suggestions about whether I should get a Dagger Approach 10 or Remix XP 10 of whether I’m missing a better option?



Here’s my deal: 6ft 1 inches 185 lbs. currently paddling a Pungo 120. I am an experienced paddler now and have found my regular “thing” although a bit odd. As a busy family person, I can never get far from the slow-moving Atlanta-area Chattahoochee River, slow moving generally with a few shoal-based class 1 to 1.5-max “rapids.” With such little white action, what I do is paddle down and then fight back up through the shoals which give me the feel of battling whitewater at times with some major exercise which I want/need. I have flipped the Pungo more than a few times doing this, which I actually enjoy and kind of ended up making a game/challenge with this weird battling upstream plus various portage spots as-exercise adventure challenge. At the same time, I also need to track well on longer stretches and want to venture to bigger water as time allows. That’s why I’m looking at these two yaks. I don’t care about expense, just want the best one and durability matters as I think knocking them around is part of the fun.



OK, way too much information, but maybe that can help any recommendations. What do you think about these two and should I consider others?



Thanks in advance,



Bryan


#2

I would go with the LL. Recently
designed, it takes advantage of evolution in design.



As for our Chattahoochee, you should go down with me from the top a time or two, and I will show you how to get a lot more out of “little” rapids.



I think I could do all my training and practice moves about as well in the LL as I can in most of my WW boats, and if I were going on a long self-supported camping trip in a kayak, the LL might be my first choice.

#3

agreed
The LL is much better construction, more comfortable, faster, and carries more camping gear. The Approach 10 is a fine boat, too, just not the same whitewater quality as the Remix 10XP. FWIW I traded from Wavesport Diesel 75 to a Dagger Approach 10 to a Prijon Chopper and now trading up to Remix 10XP for weekend whitewater camping.

Either boat will work just fine for what you have in mind. If there isn’t a price diff I’d definitely go with the LL

#4

Consider a Dagger Blackwater
It’s a full-on recreational kayak rather than a hybrid type thing, but it can handle class 1 - 1.5 (I’ve RUN, not played but run) class II+ shoals in a Blackwater.



The advantage of the Blackwater is that it will go upstream far more easily than either the Approach or the Remix.



If you are really into the rapids and enjoy playing around in them, then probably the Remix. The advice I’ve gotten on these two is that when you consider recreational:whitewater in design, the Approach is about 40:60 (more recreational than whitewater) and the Remix is about 60:40 (more whitewater than recreational).



It’s all what you’re into.



I’ve got an Approach and love it, but if I were buying now, I’d surely consider the Remix.


  • Big D
#5

Dagger Approach 10 vs Remix XP 10 ?
If the outfitting in the Remix XP is anything like the outfitting in my Remix 79 then go for the Remix. That is the most comfortable outfitting that I’ve ever been in. I wish that I could get that outfitting in sea kayak.


#6

Approach 10

– Last Updated: Feb-02-09 5:15 PM EST –

I currently have an Approach 10. I am 6'2, 235Lbs. I think you should look at the Approach 9 as I have loads of room in my boat. It is my opinion that the LL XP10 would be a better choice.

cons
The front end of the Approach really likes to dive in the surf and when paddling straight flat spots when going over 4 knots.

pros
skeg
storage for river trips
low weight
go any where boat

Good luck

#7

If 1.5 is the max you’ll be doing
I would skip the ww “hybrids” altogether. They are slow and don’t track all that well. Instead, I’d look for another plastic rec kayak that is narrower than your Pungo and has a smaller cockpit. The Pungo has some nice features, but its sort of like paddling a bathtub.



Something 12.5-14 feet in length, with a 24 inch beam would be ideal. Any rec boat in that category will handle those shoals fine. You’ll get a good workout, and develop better paddling technique with a narrower beam boat.

#8

Good point

– Last Updated: Dec-09-08 12:58 PM EST –

Something like a Necky Manitou 13 or maybe the new Dagger Alchemy would give you more upstream speed, and be snug enough that you could start learning to uses edges and leans. Just be sure to use good airbags for any boat without watertight bulkheads.

#9

Dagger Blackwater
They make 10.5, 11.5, and 12.5 models. I’m 6’3" and 245# and was able to paddle the 10.5, though it was a bit cramped. The drop down skeg is great on big pools and the lack of a rear keel allowed good control going over ledges. The sharp angle of entry and relatively narrow shape allows for moderate speed when attaining (way, way, way better than a WW hybrid boat). Plus, there’s plenty of them around available used.


  • Big D
#10

And just to confuse the issue…
http://www.jacksonkayak.com/articles/article.cfm?directory=articles09&article=200812083

#11

re: Approach 10
< Posted by: shawn_r7 on Dec-08-08 4:17 PM (EST)

<

< I have been looking at the Remix 79 and Wave Sport Diesel 75.



Shawn_r7 - I don’t know if you’ve sat in the diesel, but the 75 had much less room for my thighs than the Remix does. I believe that there are several new Diesels for '09 - including an 80.



http://cksblog.com/?p=979

#12

Thanks for all the input so far
Wow, I appreciate all the advice. I can’t wait to sit in some of these boats you’ve mentioned. I have test-paddled the Approach 10 (in a pool) and loved the handling vs. my Pungo, and can’t wait to sit in the Remix XP 10. I think I’m leaning to the more WW crossover due to a desire to make time to try to eventually get to some consistent class 2 runs with some class 3 here and there. I like the perceived greater comfort in outfitting of the XP. Self-supported camping is also something I’m interested in learning more about.



Based on the Jackson news, it looks like the hybrid class is growing. I am interested to see where the Jackson will weigh in, and was a bit surprised to see that the XP10 weighs 49 lbs, 5 lbs heavier than the Approach 10 - every bit counts. I am interested in trying to determine which skeg mechanism will be the most maintenance-free over time.



Thanks again and appreciate any ongoing input. I hope to buy something no later than Jan 15.

#13

The plastic is heavier duty
in the Remix 10XP. The decks flex on the Approach 10. Approach had some issues with the skeg early on, that my be solved by now. the approach bulkhead leaks on most of them, not a lot, but noticeable.

Another couple to look at are Dagger’s new Green boat

http://dagger.com/green-boat

and the Prijon Combi

http://www.rutabaga.com/product.asp?pid=1011962


#14

Dagger & Prijon

– Last Updated: Dec-11-08 10:45 AM EST –

I'm 6'4" at 185 lb - close to your measurements (but with size 15 feet so most boats feel cramped there).

I've sat in the Dagger green and it felt very nice. There is some flex to it, being so long though. It as well as the Prijon will offer more speed IMO but may be a bit less stable than the slightly wider Remix. Plus I do not think they have skegs - that would be a real bummer on flat water but not an issue if you are trying to go more into WW stufff. The Prijon's plastic is said to be one of the best as well in terms of durability. Their foot pedals (rods actually) are a little funky and not the easiest to adjust on the fly IMO - may or may not like them...

I would say that among the three the Remix, if it is anything like the Remix 79 which I paddled briefly, would probably offer the best outfitting (but that is somewhat personal as well - so try) and would probably be as durable as they get. Unfortunately about 50lb is pushing it when it comes time to portage - anything much above 40 lb before gear will get me tired after a short distance and I'd be wishing for a cart -;)

#15

Thanks for the additional information
Thanks for the additional information. I agree, 50lbs on the boat is pushing it on portage. I’m looking forward to lifting these and seeing how they feel. The Approach 10 felt light as a feather after hauling a Pungo 120 around.

#16

there is also the new jackson boat too!
http://www.jacksonkayak.com/kayaks/product.cfm?product=allwater

another one in the mix…