Dagger Meridian / Romany Copy???

Something I have been meaning to ask…



I used to have a Dagger Meridian–great boat. I had heard from several sources that it was a near clone to the Romany hull but with a slightly different deck. In fact I had even heard that it was such a close copy that NDK sued or threatened to sue Dagger.



However, after having the opportunity to examine a Romany close up and in-person I would say that they are nothing alike at all, other than the fact that they are both 16 foot British-style boats. Their decks are a different shape as are their cockpits, and the hulls are quite different as well—the Meridian has much softer chines and a flat bottom.



If the Meridian looks too much like any British boat I would say it is the Avocet. Is it perhaps the Avocet that Dagger was accused of copying?



Can anyone shed some light on this matter for me? Just curious.



thanks

Matt

sure
they’re ALL copies of Inuit boats that are long and pointy and have a hole in the middle.



Like you have observed the Meridian is NOT at all like a Romany 16. It’s not even like an Avocet, in fact it’s pretty unique.



and a decent ride, to boot. It surfs and plays pretty well and handles wind quite nicely.



steve


Hard to be a copy of the Avocet
since I’m pretty sure the Meridian pre-dated the Avocet by several years.



Actually I think the Meridian, Avocet, and a few other boats I havent found yet are inexact copies of the “ideal boat” I’m still dreaming about designing but haven’t had time to put down on paper yet. (How those guys got my plans before I even wrote them down is beyond me!)

AA heritage

– Last Updated: Aug-02-06 11:34 AM EST –

All Valley and NDK sea kayaks have Anas Acuta, Valley's first sea kayak in 1972, in their genes.

The North Shore Shoreline was the first 16' Brit day boat in 1984. It survives to this day and the Impex Montauk is this boat in North America.

The Romany was developed in 1993 using an Anas Acuta (Pintail according to Aled Williams) mold as starting point.

The Meridian was clearly inspired by preceeding Brit day boats, likely the Romany and the Shoreline.

The Avocet is a more recent model than either the Romany or Meridian and is derived from the Pintail (itself derived from the AA). The Avocet was Valley's answer to the Romany.

Brit syle day boats share much in appearance, though each has its own personality. To those already mentioned, one could add the Tempest 165, Chatham 16, and Capella 160/161...

why copies??
you call these boats “inexact copies”. why do you refer to them as copies?



maybe ‘models’ would be a better term??



Derek accused me of copying ‘his’ designs when he first viewed the Tempest. as if!



steve

This has been hashed out before
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=90699

Meridian
>and handles wind quite nicely



I’m a little surprised to hear you say this flatpic. Last summer up in BC I spent 4 hours paddling almost exclusively on the left side of the kayak when getting hit by 15 mph quartering winds. I wasn’t impressed at all by how it handled in wind.



No offense, but it sure wasn’t my impression.

Bob


wow
so… I hadn’t paddled the meridian nearly enough at the time I posted those thoughts.



My later thoughts are more accurate, having spent waaaayyyy more time in her.



steve

ehh
that was a joke…



He implies that the mentioned kayaks are very close to what he considers an ideal kayak :slight_smile:

"Derek accused me of copying…"
Didn’t you know that Derek invented the sea kayak? The Greenlanders stole his idea!

can you say…
S K E G …??



sorry, yes the boat is loose and quite skeg dependant, IMO. but with it deployed in beam-on conditions, the boat is quite nice. Falcon and I ran ‘em in 40 knots/ 4’ seas last winter…with skegs.



steve

oh yeah…
sorry I fergot.



His “I’m the chap who introduced sea kayaking to the Colonies” kills me. Colonies??? Me thinks we stopped calling 'em Colonies when we kick the Britts butts out 200+ years ago, didn’t we???



steve

That explains it…
I had no skeg (but would have paid top-dollar for one that day).



Bob

no matter what
anyone admits to now, there was a time when Nigel was going to have Dagger build the Romany stateside. After plans had begun, they had some significant disagreements and parted ways. Dagger took what they had up to that point and proceeded to design and build the Meridian.



I owned a first year Meridian. Loved the cockpit, seat and thigh braces fit me better than anything on the market. The fit and finish was great. The hull was not nearly as sharp as the Romany and didn’t carry the shallow V all the way thru, rather flattened out in the midships. This made the boat handle way too loose for me in following and quartering seas. Also made it a blast to surf at the Gails of November. I prefer the Romany.

Ha!
Started readin the old archive thread that someone above linked up and got to one that was sounding suspiciously familiar, then realized it was mine. I don’t remember the name I was posting under back then but they just refer to “old-user”. Funny. For me anyway.

Cheers