Dangers of mild hypothermia?

Yes -

– Last Updated: Dec-12-15 8:53 AM EST –

Hypothermia is likely to be much more of an issue for sea kayakers. It makes sense really - in the worst river situation you are not likely to be even a mile swim from shore. Let alone the higher distances from shore mileage that a sea kayaker can be if they choose an open crossing rather than traveling a erratic shoreline.

There have been stories of river kayakers who have gotten into a rough spot in more open water and experienced very high anxiety when they realized all of this had to be handled a looong way from shore. I think one showed up on this board in the last couple of so years, part of a recounting of a group experience.

BTW, in the early years of paddling out of a bay in Maine, I probably had the same response. But after a decade or so you get used to it.

Yes Celia, but…
You are forgetting that there are many paddlers that are miles from civilization when they are out on a wilderness river, and if they are not properly dressed for immersion, and the air temperature is low, and they take a swim, they will be in just as bad a situation as the sea kayaker who is off shore.



Jack L

Y’r right
I keep forgetting about being caught out lacking a change of clothing and something that would cover you against rain. I am so used to stuffing the bulkheads with that extra bag of stuff and a cag that I keep forgetting not all are so anal.



I do get cracks about it at local paddles…

Yup - for me swims are measured in feet
I’m usually 20 to 30 feet from shore. If I go 100 yards downstream that’s far. Longest swim I’ve ever had was maybe a quarter mile (probably less). I was exhausted when I finally got to shore, but not cold, and the whole swim only lasted a couple of minutes. In rivers (especially whitewater) there are lots of things that will get you before hypothermia. Ironically, I read in one of the articles that Mr. Tompkins was a pretty accomplished whitewater paddler in his younger days.

lake Michigan
wind surfing race on a 80 deg. day. light winds put on a big sail.

I puffy strong off shore wind came up with the giant sale I kept getting puffed off the board. after a long struggle and getting in and out of the ice cold water many many times in high winds I made it to shore a long way from the car. I was shaking violently laying in hot sand in the sun next to sweating people for a long time not good I would be very careful with that.

I’m not joking

A simple step I plan to take
The mentions here of hot soup reminded me, now that our lake temp is about to go below 60, that a simple precaution for me to take this winter – every single time – is to carry a small thermos of hot sweet tea. It is hard to think about this when the air temperature is unseasonably warm, as it is this week (in NC). Actually hard also to dress for immersion. I do always carry a storm cag and change of clothes, year round.

I am naturally cautious but even more so when paddling alone in winter to check eagle nests here.

CORE HEAT
Another thing that happens is all the blood is pulled to your core to protect your body. Bingo huge strain on your heart and you have a heart attack or die. Went out today 65* air 42* water full dry suit balaclava on the deck of kayak. Stuck my finger in the water 42* 100’ from my house in and said let’s not be an idiot. Stopped put the balaclava on and my hat. Neoprene gloves I left on the deck and just used fingerless Warmers.

Most is from Dr. Sigmund Rascher

– Last Updated: Dec-12-15 10:40 PM EST –

Most of the data that exists on hypothermia, and how to warm up a hypothermia victim was seized from Nazi Germany by the US military at the end of WWII. The Nazis did a great deal of research on this subject using concentration camp prisoners as Guinea pigs in an attempt to better equip Wehrmacht soldiers and Luftwaffe airmen for survival in cold temperatures. They found out that basically if a person's body temperature drops to 25 degrees Celsius (77 Fahrenheit) they lose consciousness and die.

Not many researchers are willing to put someone in a tank of ice water and leave them there until they die to find this out...the Nazis were.

Hypothermia
If you have some time check out "professor Popsicle " on u tube. He does the science. I once came across a troop of scouts with mild hypothermia at high elevation. All completely unable to help themselves or make camp, feed themselves etc. a little food and warm dry clothes and they were fine.

Anecdotally, a search and rescue guy here in nh told me he was haunted by the memory of finding two experienced winter hikers frozen to death sitting atop their backpacks full of warm dry clothes

My father loved winter hiking in NH

– Last Updated: Dec-13-15 7:04 AM EST –

He told me a story of one of his hikes - might have been on Madison or Adams. Someone overdressed, got wet from perspiration, and eventually got hypothermic. They had to stop, set up a tent, get him into a sleeping bag and dry cloths. He eventually came around, but by then it was too late to head back down, so they stayed the night. Everyone had gear, and it all worked out fine in the end, but there is no room for error when you are hiking up there.

NRS
solstice flyer has the picture…

necropsis
manatee die below 65 degrees, the cold stress syndrome causing necropsis…manatee’s internal organs rot: manatee gangrene.



There are of course, time/temperature charts for hypothermia reactions. For the individual. charts are as experimental as the experience you suggest.



A LI outdoorsman taking sea kayaking cold showers is conditioned for the challenge. We Florida folk may not be.



A social overall picture maybe alcoholism not necropsis.


cold water
We are all just between swims. Dress for immersion even if the air is warm. I have had plenty of experience with hyperthermia. It occurs most often with warm air temperatures and colder water in spring and early summer. I like to have the crew stand in the river at thigh level while I give the safety speech.

it’s a bit paradoxical
You can try to experience mild hypothermia in order to take away some lessons, but you may lose your ability to judge sufficiently to impair it. Does that make sense?



If not, take my word for it: you’re not missing anything other than a pretty miserable experience. The experience won’t really help you prepare for anything.

bingo
Agree 100%.



Some people need to justify their financial and time investment and forget where they started - which was not on a 18" wide ski.

Had a few rounds with it over the years,
And in different situations. On land and in water.



Problem is that it sneaks up on you, even if you know what the signs are. My last experience was from being in the water (quite comfortably) too long (about 45 minutes). The signs didn’t become apparent until shortly after emerging from the water. At that point, I would have been unable to perform any kind of self rescue.



Every incident is different. Testing yourself might be an eye opener, but whether it prepares you for avoidance when caught short is not to be trusted, IMO. Better to be geared up for a swim ahead of time and proactive when it happens before you feel symptoms.

Cold challenged vs. Hypothermia

– Last Updated: Dec-15-15 1:51 PM EST –

Ditto reading up on Dr. Popsicle's work. Literally if you Google that name he pops up.
Probably all of us as outdoors people have been, or routinely get, cold challenged. I think it just happens if you play around in the cold and wet, ie outside, no matter what gear you're using, eventually you get a little damp from perspiration and when you stop moving you cool down quickly. I've seen it happen to people getting out of their warm comfy kayak, pop the skirt stand up and a few minutes later they're shivering and somewhat incapacitated.
So you could play around with being cold challenged (not sure if it's the correct vernacular anymore) where your temperature is still above 95 degrees. Not sure I would mess around with mild hypothermia but that's just me. Maybe use a thermometer to get an instant gage of where your body temperature is compared to what you think it is.

Earplugs
One piece of gear I really like when I know I’m going to be getting my head wet, especially if it’s cold water, are earplugs. Cold water on the inner ear can really mess you up.

shower
and that shower routine is not even close to being submerged although it helps.

“How hypothermic”

– Last Updated: Dec-21-15 10:02 AM EST –

When you are taken out of your comfort zone, outside of your experience you can have lessened higher level abstract thinking, lessened situational awareness. So the issue isn't just how much can body temperature be lowered before there are problems but what happens on the way there. In other words by the time "mild" hypothermia sets in you're already in a losing situation. Experiencing it in a safe setting is a fine idea but experiencing the things that lead up to the situation is more important, what kinds of head/hand gear matter, what kinds of rescues are compromised with cold hands etc.
Lancet has a good overview.

This is where it's worth finding a cold water course or practice with a few friends near shore with a designated rescuer/watcher. See what happens in the context that matters to you, paddling and rescues. Do a few bow rescues with different or no head gear and see how your thinking works with a completely warm body. Do rescues and stay immersed as long as you feel comfortable.

Just walking into and out of the water can be useful but why not see how your body and head function in the activity since that's what you're doing after all. Without an internal thermometer gauging your temp I'm guessing you will get out of the water long before your core drops.