The north face founders death, and the generally cold weather got me thinking…
Are there any dangers of mild hypothermia? I have never been hypothermic, but I figure I paddle enough it will probably happen sometime in my life.
If I just walk into Long Island Sound and hang out for 5-10 minutes (very long feeling minutes) then walk 50 yards home and warm up, I should be fine right?
I know finger and limb dexterity will go quickly, but how hypothermic do you have to be to get foggy brain/impaired judgement?
I’d have a partner with me for safety and do this very near home, literally across the street from LIS. Im just semi curious to experience it in a safe setting before it happens for real, unexpectedly.
you may be confused
and not have the judgement to walk home soon enough.
I’ve had it twice. Not from immersion but from hiking in the wet and cool weather in the 40’s and then stopping. I knew what it was and knew I could not walk ( fortunately did not have to). I had someone with me make hot soup. You have to rewarm the core.
I have had a cold water accident…bronchospasm from hitting icy water filled with glacial melt. I was lucky to have been rescued before losing consciousness which would have happened due to asphyxia long before hypothermia occurred. But hypothermia would eventually occur.
For a sampling if you are susceptible to that ( not all are) try pouring ice water on your neck… Also pour it over your head while sitting down. Measure your pulse pre ice water and post ice water.
Hypothermia can happen on that long snorkel outing in the Caribbean too.
you tire
first the thermal shock then lowering surface body temps slows your functions so you feel tired. The hook there is if excited or panicked this may not occur to you.
thermal shock may injure your heart, associated nervous system functions.
Cold showers every day reduce the total problem…and a layer of fat under the epidermis.
On LIS, a swim once a week should ‘toughen you up’
Back upstream, would cannonball into a 40 degree spring once a week from 80 degrees: pins and needles skin effect, immediate shortness of breath…huff huff.
There is a volume of hypothermia studies on Google. Bing. and Google Scholar… from whom ?
Confused
That was why I thought to have a couple partners with me to make sure I dont get into trouble. Impaired judgement would in fact render me unable to decide when its time to leave, wouldn’t it?
If they stand with me in the water in dry gear and ask me a semi-simple math question every 30 seconds, is confusion obvious enough that I wont be able to add 13+23 after a few minutes?
Three big "dangers"
Poor judgement - you can’t think well enough to change your situation
Poor motor control - you can’t perform well enough to change your situation
Both of those can begin the downward spiral from mild to moderate hypothermia. Moderate hypothermia is exponentially harder to manage.
The first two can also cause the hypothermic person to further endanger or injure themself.
If you have a safety crew your biggest concern would be underlying medical conditions.
meidcal definition
Using the medical definition of mild hypothermia, here are the symptoms you may see:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypothermia/basics/symptoms/con-20020453
Some of them, like confusion, lack of coordination, and nausea could bode badly for your walk back.
I’ve experienced it a few times
Cross country skiing in Utah where I grew up and crashing through a covered stream into icewater. Caught in a very wet blizzard back country skiing, rain, snow, ice. Clothing was soaked by rain and then turned to ice as temperture sank quickly in darkness. Caught in a heavy flood of rain water and snow in Norway. Surfing too long in too cold of water in the winter, probably done three or four times. I’ve been fortunate enough to know what was going on and having a way to warm up. (dry sleeping bag, warm car or warm shower).
Just trying to make yourself hypothermic could be problem if you have un-diagnosed cardiac issues, which is fairly common. One of the most severe and worrisome symptoms of early hypothermia is uncontrollable shivering, this can cause rapid and irregular heartbeat. Trust me this is not pleasant, and if you are older I would not suggest trying to experience it.
From my own experience…
– Last Updated: Dec-11-15 5:50 PM EST –
Happily both times when it hit I was on dry land. Both times in summer too, by the way.
Once was my silly younger days at Watkins Glen rock concert after a sudden downpour. The medical tent was totally filled, they were helicoptering people out and while I was hypothermic, I looked better than many others so I got shooed away. Had I had my wits, I would have insisted on getting into that tent. But my wits were gone within ten minutes of that downpour. So I crawled into a soaking wet ancient wool sleeping bag and accidentally discovered wet wool functions. But I was not myself for another day. (In fairness, the thunderstorm hit about three hours after the medical folks got their morning load of bad trips from the very adulterated brown acid that had sold the prior day.)
The other time things faster, and maybe did not hit official hypothermia, because I reacted very quickly. I was maybe four minutes out of the water on a summer day with temps that had been in the 70's. I was soaking wet from roll practice (aka swimming) wearing rashguard, a wet suit and a dry top. A summer blow came thru and the temperature dropped to 67 degrees. In all of four minutes I went into uncontrollable chattering and shaking. I grabbed my keys and ran for the car as fast as I could, to get my dry top and wetsuit off while I still had some use of my hands. My companions were nice folks but being on the oblivious side because they were just fine. No shivers or anything.
The takeaway from that time was that cold responses can be very individual. My friends were bigger and had some body fat, while I was very lean and and buff then.
As far as indicators - I would say the biggest indicator is that you look like you need to get warmer and are slowing down, but you say you don't need help. And of course you are losing your mental functions, so you really think that. But you are wrong.
Shower
Turn your shower on cold and stand under it for 10 minutes. When the timer goes off, step out and try typing us a note, or try writing your address, etc. Try solving a predetermined long division problem. Determine your happiness level. If you need more punishment, back in you go for another 5-10 minutes.
It should be in the low 50’s coming out of the nozzle. Open the window and turn a fan on yourself without the curtain in the way if you want to speed things up.
You can stop anytime and hit the hot water faucet.
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
hudsonriverpaddler.org
Yes but…
That will help someone who is dedicated enough to go get chilly on a regular basis. I have done that by just staying in the water for rolling as long as I could. I was able/willing to push it to around 42 degrees water temps in my more dedicated years.
But the diligence and persistence to do that is most likely to be found in people with a real intention of some sort. I did it because my roll was a very hard fought for skill, and in the first couple of years I couldn’t have much of a lapse without losing it.
You are right, that works. But I suspect most won’t do it unless they are already rolling and used to being wet.
Age
I’m 30, athletic, in generally good health. No known health issues. just coming off the inherent invincibility of my 20’s =P
Nature is a mother…
Ever dumped a canoe on a spring fed river in the early Spring? Thunderstorm moves in with heavy rain, and gusty winds. Takes you 20 minutes to get your boat to shore & emptied.
Been there; done that.
No fun at all.
Best be prepared; don’t suffer needlessly.
I always carry rain gear & change of clothes; I don’t care if airtemp is 95 when I put on the river. Nature is a mother, and not always a benevolent one.
BOB
UMBLES
When teaching hypothermia awareness to my Boy Scouts for their fellow hikers I used “UMBLES”. When they Stumble, Mumble, or Grumble-watch out.
Turtle
You must be the youngest on Pnet !!!
Ready for your mind to be blown?
– Last Updated: Dec-11-15 5:15 PM EST –
I was 26 when I signed up!
There is an interesting discussion on surfski.info. someone was ripping the new Epic V5 (14' x 24" ski) because it was boarder line rec kayak dimensions.
I was saying that approachable and (relatively) cheap boats are only good for the sport, whatever form they come in because there is so much grey hair in the sport. It has to get some young blood in it, or paddle sports will continue to decline, which is such a shame. Being on the water is the best place on earth, but not many people get to experience it, in large part because of the cost of entry into the sport. I only have boats because I obsessively watched craigslist for smoking good deals, was willing to drive 6-14 hours to get them, and found kevlar boats for 1/4 of retail. not everyone has the determination to do that to get into a sport.
Big difference between being cold
and mild hypothermia…
We have all shivered from time to time and had our fingers not work well. One big indicator of mild hypothermia is impaired cognitive ability. When you have impaired cognitive ability to you probably don’t realize you have it.
Most people have been really cold, far fewer have been clinically hypothermic. In your example you might stagger around like a drunk, not be able to put on a hat (because of dexterity and because you forgot how), not know why you need to get out of the water, etc. Your friends might have a hard time convincing you to get out of the water if you are hypothermic… you just won’t care.
Another concern is protecting your air way - make sure you don’t go face down (stumbling fall) in the water and inhale.
Big difference between being cold
and mild hypothermia…
We have all shivered from time to time and had our fingers not work well. One big indicator of mild hypothermia is impaired cognitive ability. When you have impaired cognitive ability to you probably don’t realize you have it.
Most people have been really cold, far fewer have been clinically hypothermic. In your example you might stagger around like a drunk, not be able to put on a hat (because of dexterity and because you forgot how), not know why you need to get out of the water, etc. Your friends might have a hard time convincing you to get out of the water if you are hypothermic… you just won’t care.
Another concern is protecting your air way - make sure you don’t go face down (stumbling fall) in the water and inhale.
I think what you want to do is …
a good idea.
I have been mildly hypothermic on a few occasions.
One was on a metric century mountain bike race in the NC mountains in October in a icy rain. it was at about the 45 mile mark, and I couldn’t coordinate my legs or arms and my talk was slurred.
If it wasn’t for some wonderful people and their Grand Cherokee with a heated seat, I might not be writing this today.
Another was in a triathlon where the swim was held in a frigid cold lake. I made it out of the water, but couldn’t coordinate my legs or the shivering to even get on the bike
The last was a few years ago, in the 300 mile Everglades challenge, which I won’t go into.
Up in Alaska in the Arctic Circle, I dove into the Noatak River as a self experiment. Naturally there were other people around to assist me if I had a problem. I had always heard of the “gasp reflex” and thought it was BS. I proved to myself that it was. At least for me. I came out quick and only ended up with an ice cream head ache.
If you do it, please report back and tell us your results.
Jack L
You’re in CT – I’m in RI
Maybe I’ll come by and watch 
Personally, I’ve had more than my share of winter swims, and have seen a lot more than I’ve had, but I’ve never seen a bad case of hypothermia… and mild cases are pretty rare. Some of it is probably luck, but to me it is more about having the proper gear, staying within your skill level, and paddling with a group that watches out for one another.
That’s not to say the $hit doesn’t happen, as the tragic case of Mr. Tompkins demonstrates. There are other good examples above as well, but my experience is that it is pretty unusual for paddlers to get into a situation where they become seriously hypothermic. Blue lips and shivering is the worst I have seen, and at that point someone in the group will notice. For river paddlers, it is pretty easy to get folks to shore, get them into dry cloths and give them a warm drink. That usually solves the problem. I think sea kayakers are more likely to have to deal with serious hyperthermia than river paddlers due to the longer immersions and more difficult rescues.