“Work out”
Well, if you really wanted a good work out, then a SLOW boat would be more helpful!
There's nothing "wrong" about wanting a "fast" boat. There is just a lot of confusion about what "fast" means (it can mean "low effort at normal paddling speeds" or "high top speed with lots of effort").
Some people keep their short boats because they enjoy a manueverable boat and don't really need the "fast" thing.
Nordkapp Jubilee
If it’s the Nordkapp Jubilee, it’s a fine day boat! It’s fairly maneuverable on edge and reasonable fast.
The HM version might track a bit too stiffly for some as a day boat.
Slow is boring - messes up your form
Sure you can use anything and paddle hard, if you are a masochist.
It’s more fun - and you feel like your getting more out of it - when you are using the same effort but covering much more distance.
It also usually means getting into narrower hulls that allow MUCH better paddling form and MUCH more balanced workouts. The hull is only part of the efficiency equation. Fat boats fight good form. Short boats fight good form too(generally needing need more correction - and are also usually fatter, if not deeper as well).
Agree with sing
So much talk on this board about speed within a class of boats that isn’t particularly fast at all. I say stay short and fun (and fast enough), and go for it with a surf ski, Epic, Qcc, or other legit fast hull. Now you have both ends covered. Many do the middle thing and end up with mediocre playfulness, and no real speed. Just my opinion after paddling many boats over many miles over many years. In the end, most of it is subjective stuff. Years back I tested a Kajak Sport Millenium on a 9 day trip. That was a gear hauling, fast gliding kayak that was also quite playful. Don’t hear much about them, but I liked it. Pick a boat and paddle it. Hit the gym and paddle a lot if you wanna be fast.
Yes, it’s a Jubilee
and although I agree it’s manouverable and fast I do not think it’s to be considered a day boat.
To me the difference between a day boat and an expedition boat has more to do with volume then speed and/or manouverability.
In my opinion boats like Pintail, Anas Acuta, etc. are day boats, not Nordkapps (all versions), Explorer or similar.
Day boats vs Expedition boats
>
Matt, I’ll offer one example of why someone would hang onto their shorter boats once they have a (relatively) faster expedition boat. I own (currently) the following:
The Romany is my main ride. It is fun and playful and I can easily drive it to a speed beyond what most people are comfortable with for distance work. This is my day trip, teaching, surf, play and 3-5 day summer camping boat.
The Avocet is my rock boat. There’s no sense bashing the fiberglass Romany into rocks if it can be avoided. I use this for winter rock play, and especially hazardous summer rock work. Additionally, this is available as a guest boat.
Explorer (17.6) - After I badly damaged my 1st Explorer, I repaired and sold it. This current Explorer is almost two years old and has only been in the water once. I guess I should sell it but I won’t. Someday I’ll decide to send the Romany in for major repair and the Explorer will once again become my main boat (at least while the Romany is in for repair).
Greenlander Pro - This is my race boat and shoulder season camping boat. When I need to carry a lot of stuff, this is the platform. For Fall and Spring camping trips, this is the boat. Since this is my fastest boat, this is the boat I use for racing and race training.
I can comfortable push my Romany to 4.7 knots at a focused exercise pace, (maintainable for 4+ hours, speed based on a knot-meter, confirmed via GPS & race times to within 0.1 knot). My Avocet goes about 5.1 at similar effort. The Greenlander goes faster still I’m guessing about 5.3 at similar effort. I have no speed data on the Explorer.
I paddle primarily roughish water for fun with friends. Often we paddle out to standing waves to surf or paddle offshore to find rough water at reefs. Surf breaks and tidal currents are typical destinations. I also like to paddle distances (25-30 / day) just to see how far and fast I can drive my “little Romany”.
During the week, I like to paddle hard for exercise sake but the goal is not so much speed itself as efficiency at speed. I love fast boats but not as much as I love just having fun in boats. Since I can paddle my slow Romany as fast as many people can paddle their faster “expedition” boats I have the best of both world. More smiles per mile (more fun / playful) and more than enough speed for most situations.
This is my rationalization for keeping / paddling my “day boat”. If I were paddling real distances (30-40 nm) with very fast paddlers, I would choose a boat appropriate for the speed and distance. More often than not, the Romany more than meets the challenge. Next year I will buy another Romany (as a spare) and possibly an Explorer LV (for Greenland roll training).
If it’s real speed that you want, I’d lean towards Greyak’s advise or consider going full bore and buy a race boat or surf ski. Those boats define speed as a seakayak never could.
Cheers,
Jed
speed / handling
HI bowler,
Lots of good ideas floating around. There are so many choices of good boats that it can be hard to decide what one wants. I tend to agree with what some are saying that you might want to take a good strong look at how important speed is to you. I tend to like how the Brit style boats paddle but there certainly are faster boats on the market. If you want to stay with a brit style boat but want one longer than the Meridian I would second what someone else said and have a look at the new Nordkapp LV and the Aquanaut LV. Both longer than your current boat and the Nordkapp LV at 17’ 6” in the length is like the Aquanaut and the Explorer but with less volume. The Aquanaut LV at 17’ 1” is shorter than both the Aquanaut, Nordkapp and Nordkapp LV and the Explorer but longer than the Meridian so might be a good compromise for use as a day and overnight boat. I might look at that boat myself as I tend to prefer shorter boats for day tripping and rough water play so at 17’ 1” who know it might be ok.
Seasonal boats
I have two fast boats, an Epic Endurance 18 kayak and an Epic V10 surf ski, both carbon, that I use when I need speed and distance. These are my summer boats. I also have a poly Necky Zoar Sport that I call my winter boat. It’s shorter, wider and slower, but it doesn’t get blown around by the wind like the longer boats, it’s more stable, and I can get in it with my fleece and mukluks. Gotta have at least two, for warm and cold seasons.
My take on the problem
I am primarily a WW paddler and have multiple WW boats. But I live on a lake and enjoy the occasional touring trip. So I have one “touring” boat. I paddle around my lake for exercise (and do enjoy going fast) and I go on trips of a week or so. I have an Eddyline Falcon 18. No one has mentioned this boat yet but it is one of the faster boats out there. It is not nimble. You have to actually lean the boat beyond where most people are comfortable to turn it. If you do that it turns just fine. It behaves very well in “conditions” and has neither a rudder nor skeg. To be sure it would be easier to have something like a Pintail for “playing around”. But actually I think if you intend to use your kayak for touring and you want to be able to do rescues and handle difficult situations you should paddle your expedition boat and get proficient with it. So I say skip the 16’ boat unless you have excess cash and get a fast expedition style boat and learn to control it on the edge. After all, it is only roll practice. And by the way I “just love my Eddyline Falcon 18”. 
Ch 18
is an Outstanding boat in rough water, as are others. A lot depends on the paddler, and a lot of these guys get nostalgic over their particular kayak while becoming experts on what they don’t paddle. Beware of nostalgia. The 18 has greta efficiency but will out maneuver a lot of boats in it’s length range. Cockpit is bigger than I’d like.
Extremely well said Jed
Which Boat
I don’t think it matters by only a foot. And I don’t think there is any thing wrong with your boat, it sounds like you have the yaking fever! Yes Yaking Fever, it like wanting something bigger and faster, like cars and trucks.
Ask yourself why you really want to get rid of a perfectly normal boat that you seem to be very happy with, or are you. You also mentioned that you can’t afford to keep two yaks. So keep the smaller one (1 foot less), move to your new location (where is it by the way, I may have been stationed there once?), see what the area has for you and see and make the decision then using the info you have gathered from your observations at the new place. IMHO, 1 foot or even two won’t make but 1 - 2 MPH difference, and that is no big deal. And if its space your looking for, just pack a little bit better with the 16 footer.
I hope that helps!
ORF (Old Retired Fart)
Wow…
I never expected so many responses to this post…and lots of great information.
To answer some questions…yes, I realize that there are faster boats out there for sure. I do want a fast boat, but am willing to sacrifice a little bit of speed for the handling, grace and feel of a British style boat. The fact is that I really love the feel of my Meridian and want something with similar feel and handling, but faster. While I do like to go fast, I also do enjoy the graceful feel of a great handling kayak. That is part of the joy of paddling.
While I will likely have to paddle lakes, there is a chance that I will get to do some rough water paddling in which case I would like a boat that inspires confidence in rough water like the British boats
…and one thing that I forgot to mention…I think I would like to rule out any boats with a rudder (sorry to bring up that painful argument but I don’t want a boat with a rudder).
As far as the other questions…most of my paddles are only a couple of hours and I paddle at about 4.5 mph in my Meridian. This is about as fast as I can push this boat.
Ocassionally I go on longer trips as well, but my weekly paddles are usually short in duration.
I do occasionally do overnight trips, but cargo capacity is not much of an issue for me because I can pack light enough to fit my gear in almost any boat.
Matt
I guess I failed to mention…
that there is a deal on a used Aquanaut here…and a used Explorer. Those are the two boats I was looking for and I found one of each used within an hour of here (rare find). I don’t know how long they will last. Buying used is pretty much my only affordable option at this point, and by finding them available locally, I don’t have to worry about shipping. So this plays heavily upon my decision obviously!
I am may just go ahead and get the used Aquanaut, paddle it for a while, and then decide which boat to keep and then sell the other.
To answer your question about where I may be going…hard to say…I will know soon, but likely locations are Redstone Arsenal (Hunstville), AL, Picattiny Arsenal, NJ, or Detroit Michigan. I may also end up at one of the Divisions which means it could be one of many locations. I am no longer a line officer and work in Acquisitions now so I could end up at one of many smaller military installations.
Matt
"I also do enjoy the graceful feel"
Then you can’t go wrong with the Aquanaut. Nearly everyone who has paddled my 'naut comments that it is the ‘best mannered’ boat they have paddled.
There IS nothing like a Valley!
Well said
A person used to backpacking can easily fit 1 weeks worth of gear in a smaller boat. You don’t need to bring the kitchen sink. I think you are correct about the romance of an “expedition” and owning an expedition boat. I don’t expect I will ever do this, but a weeks camping trip certainly is on the horizon. Besides, if I were to go on some expedition I would likely rent a boat like an Explorer, etc. The Aquanaut is a nice boat that might be a good compromise of pretty good speed, good tracking and yet playful enough not to be boring. Maybe the RM version(s) (which is (are?) shorter, would fit the bill as well.
~wetzool
Saranac 14
I have a Saranac 14 in my small fleet. It is a very nice boat overall. I am 5’8" and 190lbs. and it handles quite well for me. My sister also has one and likes it quite well. This is one of David Yost’s nicest kayak designs, IMO.
On the other hand, I do not like the Saranac 14.6. I have only paddled this once for a very short test. It has too much volume for me and is made for a much larger paddler.
On a subjective basis I feel that the Saranac 14 does pretty well in keeping up with most paddlers in longer boats. It is certainly slower than my ~16’ Bering Sea, but this is a John Winters design with an even longer waterline. The Bering will easily keep up with most 17 - 17.5’ kayaks. The Saranac feels like it is similar in speed to my 16’ Avocet. I would expect that you or your brother-in-law would not have much trouble keeping up with most paddlers in 16-17’ boats.
It is a nice day tripping boat, but with enough space for weekend camping trips. The length is great for using in small streams and paddling around marshes, etc.
~wetzool
Brit "handling, grace and feel"
What else have you paddled? Different people like different things, but on average, so far, I have found them to feel slightly more sluggish and subdued. Some call that well mannered - and may be great in the really rough confused soup of a large flow tidal race - but I call it wasted potential elsewhere - particularly for the sort of cruising along you describe.
I’ve spent a few hours touring in an NDK Explorer and been in a Legend, Nordkapp, Romany, Pintail…) - and while I find them all to be excellent and very capable hulls in different ways - I would not rate them higher for handling, grace of feel over my 700 (which is has skeg and is outfitted basically Brit) for touring (and actually, I still prefer the 700 in slop except maybe in dumping shore break - but I don’t hang out in that, and it doesn’t sound like that’s what you’re planning either).
The Brits don’t have a lock on any particular performance qualities, and even within that narrow division there is a LOT of variety of feel/handling. Many great boats - but I find it hard to universally ascribe any particular characteristics to them (except maybe “heavy”! L).
I can certainy understand why so many like the British boats - and have some favorites myself (some that might make the top of my list if I could only have one hull for everything) - but I don’t understand how people see them as a category unto themselves in terms of handling, feel, etc.
Expedition and Brit Expedition…
didnt’ Brits go on safari like with tents the size of a small house, replete with loungers beds, stoves and silver teapots. 20 porters for every one Brit expeditioner…
Kinda carried over to their “lean, mean” expedition kayaks. The day hatch is still there for the thermos. Roughing it doesn’t mean one has to go totally native… A spot of tea is the only civilized thing to do…
sing
Folks, it’s a joke, okay. I swear I poke fun at the “go native” crowd too.
Can’t go to wrong either way then…
…assuming they’re in good condition and decent price.
If I could only have one kayak for general paddling to include calm and rough touring, and roll practice in - an Explorer would be pretty high on my list. Probably Aquanaut too - I just haven’t had a chance to paddle one. From what I gather, I might like it even more due to slight speed edge.