If I had one boat
It would be a NDK Explorer. The combination of fit, stability, maneuverability, rough water manners, durability and speed make it my personal favorite. I also own an Epic 18 Carbon, which satisfies my need for pure speed. I use this kayak specifically for training and touring class racing (Blackburn). That’s not to say that the Epic isn’t a capable touring boat, because it is, I just prefer handling characteristics of the Explorer for general touring (ocean, bay and river). I also owned a Greenlander Pro (also a very capable tourer but didn’t work well for me personally) which I sold earlier this year to make room for the Epic.
In my opinion, the Epic is appreciably faster than the Greenlander Pro. The Greenlander Pro is modestly faster than the Aquanaut, and the Aquanaut is slightly faster than the Explorer. One of my good paddling friends has owned both an Aquanaut and Explorer for several years. He insists there is no speed difference between the two (no matter how many times I ask the question!)
Cheers,
NJP17
A variety of boats is good
And many people find the Pintail and the Anas Acuta to track so poorly as to be inappropriate for all but the shortest trips.
Except in the foredeck height (where your knees go), it doesn't look like the Nordkapp has much more storage volume than an Avocet.
I don't see the Nordkapp as a "high volume" boat (nor is it a "low volume" boat).
Longer/shorter
It makes sense that a longer boats encourages better form because there's less need to correct for tracking.
I don't prefer "fat" (24''+) boats myself but "short" certainly does not "usually" mean fatter or deeper.
The QCC700 at 21 inches wide and the Epic Endurance at 21.5 inches wide are the same as what is "usual" for much shorter boats.
Please give us a list of…
"much shorter" kayaks with 21" or less beam. It would make many smaller paddlers and those looking for lower volume play and day boats quite happy.
I can think of one - Nigel Foster's Rumour - discontinued but now coming back into production via Current Designs - at 16' x 19.75". All but light paddlers will make it a submarine - and when hulls sink below their lines they tend to get real slow and hard to manuver.
Impex Mystic is close - only 14' overall - but beam is 21.5" makes for a somewhat fat length to width ratio.
From what I see, for now, it remains quite hard to find beams of 21" or less on sea kayaks under 17', very hard under 16'. Between 16-18', 22, 23, or even 24" is a more common production beam. 14'-16' the range jumps to more like 23-26" (and with the exception of the Mystic we're not talking sea kayaks anymore either - probably not under 16'), and for under 14' it's fat city.
Some reasons for this are good, some not - but all driven by a mix of the design tradeoffs and potential sales numbers.
Looking at it another way, even skinny custom fit Greenland SOF tend to be over 17' for even small paddlers. Anything is possible - but often counter productive except for children's boats meant for calm waters.
My 17’ VCP Skerrey Is For Sale
I have a 17’ Fiberglass Valley Canoe Products Skerrey for sale…
I can make you a very good deal on it.
Good catch…
…as long as 16’ counts as short, and in this case “low volume” probably has more to do with production levels that hull volume too.
Depends of your perspective . .
>It makes sense that a longer boats encourages better form
because there’s less need to correct for tracking
I’d like to offer an alternate view: that shorter, less directionally stable boats encourage better form (or drive their pilots out of the sport) exactly because you have to learn to balance your stroke to avoid the frustration of corrective strokes.
One way that we deal with whiners that complain about poor tracking boats is to encourage them to practice paddling “old school” ww boats longer distances then they would like and at a decent clip. Once a paddler learns to do that, they never seem to complain about poorly tracking boats ever again. he-he
We all start out with poorly balanced strokes. One side is always stronger than the other or we are more flexible on one side or the other. It’s why some beginners have to apply very heavy reverse sweeps as corrective strokes (because they haven’t developed the sense to feel the stern before it starts to skid)
Over time we become more tuned into a sense of boat control and balancing the differences between our left and right strokes. Eventually, corrective strokes become very subtle, hardly perceivable by any one other than ourselves.
Stiff tracking boat mask this imbalance and make it more difficult to learn this lesson, while maneuverable boats expose these imbalances much to our frustration some times. This is why some people can happily paddle short maneuverable boats without skegs or rudders and seem to have so much fun doing so. While other paddlers find the constant corrections frustrating enough to drive then to purchase a different boat. Just my personal belief, YMMV
Cheers,
Jed
Once again your thoughts
hit home with me Jed! My best friend and surf pal was an Olympic slalom boater and coach, as well as champion HP surf kayaker. The guy despises tracky kayaks,(as could be guessed) as well as overly long kayaks. This is a paddler that has NO trouble making a Pintail go straight, or fast. Having said that, he’d choose a surf ski for fitness paddling. My point, to reinforce Jeds comments is that there’s no right answer, but it seems that boaters who come from WW or surf backgrounds and like to play in rough seas, tidal rapids etc., seem to gravitate toward shorter and playful. The fitness / race crowd, equipped with GPS, wing paddles etc. are gravitating naturally toward a different boat, as they should. I think Epic and QCC offer the cross over boater great balance between the two disciplines. As others have said it is nice to go farther for your effort. A surf ski is way more fun for going fast and straight. Would be NO FUN in a rock garden. Whatever you choose, paddle often and enjoy.
I agree totally with that spin on it
Try paddling a Sterns IK116 for anything over 5 miles. Fat, and sides come up high, and spins easy.
I started in that -and have yet to find a boat that’s too hard to keep moving straight since! The T160 I went to next seem like it was on rails - and hard to turn - for the first 5 minutes or so. Then fine. Moving from that to an 18’ sea kayak - no issues tracking or turning.
My Tsunami X-1 spins out like a WW boat if you try to coast with rudder up (pretty cool actually). Still not hard to keep in line moving forward.
Pintail goes where ever I point it, despite it’s reputation (though Kim likes it much better with just a little skeg down - and I can’t say I blame her).
I like long hulls for several reasons - but don’t think about tracking much at all unless in quartering or beam winds. That’s what the skeg’s for.
Thanks for letting me know
Baracuda,
Thanks for letting me know, but I think it is a bit wide for my taste, and I cant really deal with the ocean cockpit.
thanks again
Matt
moving up from a Meridian
I paddled a Meridian SK for a number of years on inland lakes. Two years ago I moved to the downriver Detroit area, and have been paddling the River and Lake Erie. My Meridian has a tendancy to broach when paddling in large following seas, so I looked for something that I didn’t have to fight as much in bigger waters.
I test paddled over a dozen skegged boats in the 17-18’ range last spring. For the most part, if you are buying used, you can’t go wrong with most of them. The differences are subtle in a lot of cases. I ended up purchasing a used Foster Legend, as it gave me the balance between tracking and responsiveness that I liked in the Meridian. The Nordkapp felt similar, but was higher volume in the bow which I didn’t like. The Aquanaut was not as responsive to leaning, although seemed to have more initial stability. These are impressions from relatively short test paddles, so people who own these boats may have different opinions.
I still own the Meridian. I use it for inland lake paddling, as it is easier to turn and poke around shorelines with. It is also a lot lighter, and easier to put on the minivan. I can comfortably cruise in the Meridian at 4-4.5 mph for long distances. The Legend is slightly faster. I probably cruise at 4.5-5 mph, although I don’t have a good measurement because of river currents. I do not fitness paddle, so I can’t give you any comparison when the boats are pushed to their limits for long periods. I do not notice substantial differences in speed when cruising along the shoreline, although the Legend is faster.
If you end up in the Detroit area, we have a good paddling shop here and you could test paddle the Valley, NDK, and CD boats. You are also welcome to try my Legend.
If you are looking for good deals on used boats though, it is hard to go wrong with any of the British-style boats for what you are looking for (I haven’t tried the QCC, so will let others vouch for that).
heck try the KS Viking
shorter sister of the milennium. fastest 16’4" touring/day boat around–blows the cockpit rim off the romany and avocet, based on those hydrostatistical ratings. of course it all depends on what kinda engine you got in it, right…?
i’m very happy and reasonably quick with mine. nice boat otherwise too
16’ is short
This makes sense since the original poster is "starting from" a 16' boat and looking for something longer.
Keep in mind that I'm talking sea kayaks here. Also, one can find exceptions to everything and differences are a matter of degree rather than absolutes.
Sea kayaks -mostly- fall in the 16-18 foot range in length and in the 24-20 inch range for width.
24 is on the wide side for a sea kayak.
Any boat much shorter than 15-16 feet and much wider than 24 inches will tend to be a "recreational" boat (a class of boats -outside- of this discussion). Sea kayaks that are 24 inches or wider (and 16+ feet) tend to be, "beginner" boats, or "expedition" boats or built for really heavy people.
Also note that SOF will typically be much narrower than a "normal" sea kayak (and that BBK are SOF-like in design).
Got a longer boat…
Well I finally got my longer boat—a Valley Aquanaut.
I now have a better feeling for the attributes of both the longer and shorter boat. The difference in the water is actually quite noticeable.
The longer boat seems to track a lot better in rough conditions. It goes faster and straighter and is better for getting from point A to point B in rough water.
The shorter boat is much more “playful” in rough water. It tends to slide sideways down wave faces and get tossed around a lot. This is actually a blast to paddle in on a rough day. Lots of fun and really makes you put your paddling finesse to work…but not the best for getting from point A to B quickly.
On flat water the longer boat is still a bit faster, but not as much so as I would have thought. In the shorter boat I cruised at about 4-4.5 and now I cruise at 4.5-5 mph. A slight difference. There is a very noticeable difference in acceleration though. The longer boat just feels sluggish in the water and harder to paddle at slower speeds. I don’t quite understand this as I have looked at the data in the reviews in Seakayaker Magazine and they paddling effort required in both boats up to about 4.5 knotts is almost identical.
There is some tradeoff in handling, but actually not too much. The Aquanaut handles quite well. I have found that it has more of a tendency to carve smooth turns, where the Meridian would sometimes slide around turns when edged. In some instances the stern would slide out if really edged.
The shorter boat probably is more pleasant to paddle at all but the highest speeds. I think it is probably a better boat for the average paddler.
For me though I think the longer boat is better overall. I like to paddle fast and cover more distance. The longer boat will help me to do this. I also like to paddle in rough conditions, and ultimately the Aquanaut will help me to do this better. I think that the longer boat will also help me to develop better skills in the long run which is important to me as well.
I think it would be nice to keep both boats and use the shorter one for slower group paddles, poking around shorelines and tight spots, but I can only afford to keep one and for me it will be the longer one.
Matt