agreed!
i weighted the rim,hatch and bulkhead and it was just under a pound. add a little resin and tape and compensate for the cut out and…WAY less than 3-4 lbs.
Spray, er… I mean Salty exaggerates some, me thinks.
steve
Your problem
…is that you assume that where someone lives or regularly paddles is the only place they ever paddle.
Your second problem is that you assume someone is incapable of handling conditions rougher than typically occur where/when they do paddle.
Let’s switch things around a bit. I live in the so-called foothills of the Rocky Mountains. These “foothills” have extremely steep grades even though they are “only” 7,000 to 10,000 ft elevation. So maybe you ride a mountain bike in Florida. MY take on that is that if you come out here to mtn bike, you might suck wind, but if you climb any hills (anthills?) at all back in FL, you can probably manage to get up our “foothills.” It will just be harder than what you are used to.
And then there are the mountains that we here actually call mountains (10,000 to 14,000+ ft)…At any rate, I don’t dismiss a “flatlander” as being unable to climb them just because they don’t have them where they live.
Your third problem is that you have never been out on these mountain lakes when they ARE rough. Rangers report 6’ to 8’ storm waves occur on some of them.
Your ultimate problem (and I do mean YOUR problem) is that you have to cut other people down to make yourself feel superior.
Since you have made this clear in repeated stereotyped-Greyak responses to others as well as to me, there’s no point in beating this any further. It’s YOUR problem, and I make no apologies to you for YOUR problem.
Not a make-or-break item
I do strongly prefer the day hatch now that I have gotten used to having one. It just wouldn’t be as high priority as other things about the kayak. Remember that at my size, there are a lot fewer suitable kayaks to choose from in the first place. I’m lucky to like what I have, and it does have a day hatch.
Re: yard sale. I have some photos of my most recent camping trip that show the fully-loaded kayak. Will try to upload and post a link in the next week. Though obviously it’s not a clear deck, it’s not nearly as cluttered as some might think. It also feels fine, not top-heavy. The kayak sits level in both the left-right and fore-aft axes and feels very stable.
Part of the divergence in opinion is due to day-paddlers vs. campers. The only way I could keep a clean deck on camping trips longer than about 5 days is to paddle a bigger kayak, which I do not want. Even with a bigger kayak, I would likely still have some things on deck. Have you seen the photos of Heather Nelson on her circumnavigation of Lake Baikal, Russia? (SKM published the article within the last 2 years.) She paddled the CD Storm with an incredible assortment of gear on deck. Photos of Jon Turk in his high-volume Prijon show a large drybag on the rear deck.
I could stash the collapsible bucket inside the cockpit, but it’s practically flat anyway. As is the Crazy Creek chair.
Sort of
I don’t want it on my back deck, because it would cover the day hatch access. I have a composite Capella with a high front deck, and I don’t want it interfering with my paddling. So, not on the front deck.
If I put it behind my seat in the cockpit with the tube running through the skirt, I’m afraid it would interfere with a wet exit.
The only other option is attached to the back of my PFD which I may experiment with.
The water bottle is in my day hatch except in rough conditions as mentioned earlier.
When I put it in my front deck bungies, I can put it out of the way of my paddling. It is a fairly soft bottle that flattens out as it empties.
I am open to suggestion though.
If you don’t have…
… room in you hatches, just say so! 
I never really said anything about your paddling, you’re probably a lot better paddler than I and have almost certainly paddled more varied waters. Doesn’t matter though. I just commented on your packing. I also said that’s no doubt fine - for you - but not for me. Then I had some side fun with your (unneeded) defender holmes375.
Who has the problem? Who is bothered by this stuff?
PS - If you say 6-8’ there - OK. Must be fierce winds to whip that up with so little fetch! Too much wind to paddle in. Not arguing - just going over all that oceanography training I’ve had in my head. Can’t help running the numbers. Example: A 3 mile wide body of water needs 80 mph winds to get to 6-8’ Here’s a wave height calculator:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/mqt/common/conversion_inc.htm
Don’t run tube up tunnel
Try running it out between skirt and coaming. That way teh hydration system stays with the boat - you’re never connected.
Packing and deck loads…
are an art form in and of itself. I saw the Nelson’s article and cringed at the deck loads. One of them looked shoulder level. Whatever, they made it back. I wouldn’t do that though. Nor did the PNW crew when they paddled around Iceland without a deck load. It’s less about kayak volume then it is about choosing appropriate equipment and leaving behind a bunch of stuff of marginal value.
Does your sleeping bag have the nice soft flannel with the little deer printed on them? Buy a good down with DWR finish and a completely H2O proof drybag. Your stove more suited to boiling white explorers in a Amazonian rainforest than a one pot meal? They make really compact and light ones these days. I’m not doggin’ ya either, I dog my pals when they make multiple trips down to the shorline to bring their kit up for the day. I usually fill one large duffel for one trip and the yak comes up on the second trip. Very simple.
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
Tube under skirt
That sounds like the best option. I give it a try. Thanks
Some info on the local topography
The larger mountain lakes can have much more fetch than 3 miles. It depends where you are. The 2.5- to 3-mile crossing (at best) that we did at Granby was in no way the longest fetch there, and anyway that wasn’t a rough day in the first place. Sunny and barely a cloud in the sky. Storms or approaching fronts can be an entirely different story.
Another factor is downdraft winds–typical of mountain lakes–such as chinooks. These are frequently 30 to 40 mph “steady state” with gusts reaching up to 100 mph (more commonly peaking at 60 to 80 mph). So high wind speeds are not at all rare here. Your hypothetical scenario of a 3-mile fetch with 80 mph winds could well be exceeded in many areas, in both CO and WY. However, it usually does not happen at this time of year.
Some of the worst winds (with respect to effect on paddlers) hit after the mountain downdrafts get funneled through canyons. It’s just like current that becomes constricted: it speeds up even more.
These are the same gusts that cause tractor trailers to flip onto their sides, toppers to be ripped off of pickups, and concrete bus stop benches to be overturned. They also have no trouble tossing around sea kayaks that have been placed onto asphalt (been there, done that).
Holmes375 lives in another state well-known for its windiness. It is no joke. Ask anyone who has driven along I-80 with a good wind from the side.
True enough
It is an art form that requires practice. I have finally got to the point that I no longer have a large drybag on the deck (like I did last summer, on a different kayak).
But I also had to sacrifice taking along my SLR in its bulky Pelican 1300 case. For a major trip such as last summer’s I couldn’t bear to use only a point-and-shoot, so I put the Pelican inside the cockpit (in front of my feet) and put the drybag that would have been there on top of the rear deck. And I agree it was just too damned big, even though it didn’t even come close to the freighterload that Heather Nelson put on her Storm’s deck.
I’ve already switched to a 5’6" down sleeping bag (not a sub-zero winter bag, either), an ultralight backpacker’s ThermaRest sleep pad, and a stove tiny enough to fit inside my small cook kit. I’m using nylon tapered bow/stern bags and mostly nylon bags, period (they squash and slide better than PVC bags).
After this, any room for volume reduction will come from cutting back on clothing, which depends on the season and location to be paddled.
Back in college days…
my roomies called me Hazel. They would pile crap up on the counter, days old, you get the picture. My pals trooping up and down the beach with their 100 plus pounds of equipment think they need that, too. I don’t mind them at all, just make notes.
Put a red dot on everything next time you go out. Whatever dot doesn’t get peeled by use gets the suspicious eye next time. Kinda fun, a bit dogmatic, but not a wasted effort, either.
BTW, I use a Canon Rebel and bring along a 24mm, 35mm and maybe a 90. Doesn’t take up a horrible space when packed well. Most of the shooting is done with the 35. I ebven have a 28-200 Tamron that’s adequate for the application, most times.
Augustus Dogmatycus
MMV
Day hatch use
– Last Updated: Oct-06-05 11:44 PM EST –
I have pulled out a hot thermos of ginger tea for a seasick companion, OTC drugs fron the first aid kit.
Had a couple of guides pull out a first aid kit fron a front hatch in mildly textured water to patch my hand up. Did not look like something I would want to be doing a lot but well within their capability.
I can certainly live without one. but if I found a boat I loved that did not offer one. I'd either beg, harass, or ply nystrom till he helped me put one on
.
if given a choice between
between a day hatch and a small hatch immediatley in front of the cockpit (called a glove box by some and an emergency box by other manuf.) I would choose the emergency box. I paddle between 500 and 1000 miles a year–not a lot I know, and most of it on flat water lakes…Yes you can reach around an access a day hatch IN SMOOTH WATER and i’m sure many more acrobatic paddlers here can do it in rough water but i’d say most dont risk it. I can and have accessed the emergency hatch in rough water and know it can be done…even if you capsize with that hatch open you would only take on at most a quart of water (depending on the size of the knee tube under it of course)…
Having said that I also like day hatches for division in packing and in a sense it is yet another watertight compartment (assuming the day hatch has a good cover e.g. VCP or Kajaksport)…its is good to know that all food/kitchen supplies are in one spot, etc.
The bad news is that only one U.S. manuf. offers an emergency hatch–Lincoln Kayak and Canoe.
The Prijon Millenium has it but only available in Europe. A lot of boats in NZ and Australia have this feature because they’ve realised that this is a hatch you can access while under way.
Would I exclude a boat because it doesnt have an emergency hatch? No, in fact grabbed a QCC700 this year and a Kestrel 120 knowing that neither had one, in fact neither had a day hatch either.
So if i was doing a 5-10 day paddle trip knowing that weather and seas could turn fowl I would choose the Eggemoggin simply because it has the emergency hatch where I store the radio, the gps, the camera, 2 flares and 2 energy gell packets.
Spoken like a Texan
Cold drinks are a priority. Gotta keep cool in the long hot summers down here!
I love day hatches. My old style Tarpon 160 (SOT)could really use one - my keys/wallet/phone end up in some container rolling around under the deck. The new style Tarpon 160 has two day hatches. A thoughtful improvement.
Like I said - it would take serious wind
FYI - I have driven 1-80 (the whole thing) more than once, and have caught some serious cross winds. I also lived in CO (Steamboat) for a Summer. I’ve also been trained extensively in meteorology and oceanography at taxpayer expense and know a little about adiabatic winds, downdrafts, etc.
I’m sure you do get 80 mph winds at times - but you’re not out paddling in them, are you?
How large are the biggest motor vessels on those lakes? Maybe you want to compare potential wakes?
Let’s move on.
Why do you have to choose?
There’s no reason that a boat can’t have both.
BTW, your VHF radio and flares belong on your person, not in a hatch. In an emergency, you may well lose your boat and you’ll need these items to signal for help.
agree
Coming a little late to this thread. But anyway, I LOVE day hatch. Fortunately, all the boats I considered have them. It’s a trademark B-boat item, and British-style boats are what turns me on.
What I put in there?
SLR CAMERA!!!
I already have a decent waterproof point-n-shoot I carry in the PFD and can use ON WATER. But when I go for longer trips, the SLR goes into the day hatch. If I ever see a school of whales, I will bet you your next 10 trips the ability to pull out a really nice camera with telephoto lens in short order!
Other things that are nice to put in there as others had suggested, medicine, extra battery, extra jacket, lunch and extra water…
Notice all are “extra” items. The name of the game is, I can live without them if I don’t have a day hatch. I won’t die from missing them. But it makes the trip just that much more enjoyable with on-water access to those “extra” items! After all, aren’t we all paddling for the fun of it? Those “extra” items can turn an ordinary paddle into an “extraordinary” ones by snatching that zoomed-in whale photo!!!
Oh, I almost forgot: BINOCULAR!