Demo several, then rent the one that
seemed most appropriate. If it doesn’t appeal after a rental, try renting the next one on your list, and so on.
Around here, there are neither demos or rentals available.
Some of the boats I’ve bought had
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received favorable reviews before I considered them. That includes:
Hahn c-1
Necky Looksha Sport
Perception Corsica
Dagger Animas
Mad River Guide Solo
Mad River Synergy
Bluewater Chippewa
Dagger Zealot c-1
Old Town Tripper
Boats that I bought even though info on them was mixed at best:
Perception Dancer XT (fast but rotten handling)
Noah Lava/Magma ($100 bucks, all Kevlar, fast, brilliant for attainments, eat your heart out)
Perception Sage (worse handling than Hahn)
Phoenix c-1 (cheap, durable, mediocre)
Bought based on low price and/or word of mouth
Millbrook Wide Ride c-1 Pretty good boat
Millbrook Big Boy OC-1 Good handling, dry, blows around
Moore Voyageur Fast, dry, heavy
Mad River Compatriot Too small for me
If that's more than 14, I've sold or cut up some.
I believe I'm a much better than average judge of hulls and how they perform. With 2 or 3 exceptions, I think I've actually seen the hulls before I handed over the money.
Well, if you want to make it impossible
Anyone I personally know who has actually done all of what you mention - tried out friends’ boat(s), gone to class and spent some time in boats with an outfitter - has been able to settle on at least a satisfactory first boat.
We know of a couple of people who have gone thru that and more and are still looking for the perfect boat. But the problem is not the process or the boats they find - these are individuals who will never be happy with the boat they have. They still provide value though - folks who can’t make up their minds are an excellent source of used boats for the rest of us.
At first, it’s 80% boat and 20% paddler
As you learn, it becomes 80% paddler and 20% boat.
Would love it…
Would love to watch a gaggle of rookies test paddling a Hahn C1 for the first time, after buying it based on “favorable reviews”.
What percentage of rookies do you think could even keep it upright?
:^)
BOB
ive never bought
A boat that I paddled first. It’s worked out. I wish there were things different about even my favorite boats, I guess that’s why I keep wanting to buy more. I don’t see how demoing them would have changed anything. I can look at specs and see if I can fit in it, and then just go from there.
I prefer the approach of learning with a boat. I guess after one moves deeper in the sport, demoing can be more worthwhile. I feel like I’ve paddled enough boats at this point to pretty much predict what a boat is generally going to do. Of course the finner points and behaviors of each boat will be learned, usually after said demo is over anyway.
Ryan L.
All but one.
Before I bought any of my boats, I read all of the reviews right here on Paddling.net. Naturally there are going to be some reviewers who have mixed comments, but if you average it out it is about right. I don’t mean to ignore the critical comments, though.
I didn’t have the luxury of demoing all of my boats before buying, but what I do know is that the most I learned about the boats I did demo was that they fit right. Luckily, all of the boats turned out to be absolutely spectacular. Heck, I’m still discovering things about these boats that sometimes amaze me. What I know for sure is that they are all better than I will ever be, but they do make me look good.
It’s like buying shoes
Try before you buy.
If it doesn’t fit well and hurts then all the opinions are worthless.
can’t agree
Demo with someone who knows what they’re talking about. There’s no substitute for seat time.
benefit is at ends of abilities
Either a beginner trying to simply tell if the boat fits and is comfortable, to an expert comparing similar boats to find the one best suited for the paddler and use.
I admit the second case is pretty uncommon, particularly if the vendor doesn’t carry both brands.
re:demo, demo, demo
The need to demo is very plain to me, but perhaps escapes others or does not apply at an equal importance. The reasonong why part of my advice on a boat purchase is always to demo is as follows:
1)To purchase blindly is igmorant.
2)To purchase purely on the faith of another’s recommendation does not account for personal preference of the actual user.
3)Whom ever is spending the money has to accept the consequence of the choice, I don’t want any of it.
4)Through the process of doing demos, there is an opportunity of education and putting others opinions into actual context for the individual at their current skill.
Anyone who is offended by this reasoning can obstain from reading my comments.
'nuff said, t.george
Others’ “recommendation” …
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... is not the only option when seeing what other people think of a boat. The prospective buyer can and should look for objective statements about the boat's design and purpose, and if reading an individual's "recommendation", it only makes sense to do so in the context of that person's personal preferences. To demo or not to demo need not be as black and white as you imply.
I still wonder what the demo-demo-demo people think a person should do if they live in a place where the boats they are considering aren't available for test-paddling, or what the average person who wants one of those niche-builder boats I mentioned in my earlier post is supposed to do, or what a beginning solo-canoer should do who won't have the skills to evaluate the boat until much later?
Last year there was a guy from South Dakota who wanted to get his family into canoeing, and someone totally unfamiliar with the Great-Plains states said he really needed to test paddle several models before making a decision. There was helpful advice too, because several people here did their best to figure out what the person's needs would be and suggested a number of different boats, in each case describing their various pluses and minuses. When it was all done, no one had any doubt that the person made a really good choice of boat for his particular paddling plans, but any of the other options being considered would have been fine as well.
By the way, your closing remark makes me suspect that you won't recognize the potential that a less-constrained view of the topic might sometimes have merit, so let me make it clear that I'm not "taking offense" at what you said. I'm only trying to expand the parameters.
The web has made us neurotics
If a boat is not available for water trial, sit in one to at least see how it feels as far as fit.
I bought my first Necky Arluk III used with no trial and no experience and no web with millions of opinions and experts. A kayak store had it from their rental fleet and said it’s a good boat. I liked it, changed the seat but had a lot of good experiences and learned a lot.
As long as people know the difference between a recreational boat and a real kayak with bulkheads and thigh braces etc. I think they will be OK if its stable enough for them.
Agree with this approach
I rented for a season, then outgrew the rental skillwise, rented another season with a skinnier boat that I could control better with my hips. I took a rescue and a rolling class with this boat, then bought it. I also forged some good relationships with an outfitter and some instructors.
Lou
I take exception…
iwAS nEUROTIC lONG bEFORE i wAS oN tHE wEB!
I wasn’t an absolute rookie when I
bought one in '75. Actually, the Hahn firms up pretty quickly as it tilts, and isn’t as easily stripped out from under you as, say, my Dagger Zealot. C-1s are boats where you have to learn and anticipate what currents will do to you, as soon as possible.
Recently, though, I happened on shots taken of me in my Zealot, from behind, and it is hard to believe anyone so tall could sit in the thing without falling over. Like watching the circus bear riding the tiny motorcycle.
Cliffjrs’ original post not refuted.
It remains true that the less experienced you are, the less you can learn from a demo.
And, seeing what more experienced paddlers are using is a very good way to narrow your selection range.
Many here are glossing over the difficulty of jumping in a boat and doing a meaningful evaluation; disregarding the need to outfit a boat for oneself before a demo; and not properly treating the case where one is going to buy a boat that is specialized and differs markedly from what one normally paddles.
Ha !
You can learn from a Demo that you will stay upright or capsize, and to me that is the first and most important thing that I want to know.
I strongly advise any newbies to demo if you possibly can before you buy a boat.
Jack L
I disagree
While a “newbie’s” skill set/experience will limit what they can learn from a demo, they will learn something. Perhaps it won’t help them identify the boat they want/need once their skills develop it will help them identify what works right now.
All that said, good luck finding a canoe to demo in some areas such as my local area.
Good Post
I’ve gone on record here as disagreeing with those who think every person’s boat-buying decision needs to be done with scientific precision, and I REALLY dislike the implied corollary of the demo-demo-demo rule that says anyone who doesn’t live near a paddling shop, club, or an outfitter, and especially canoe-buyers in many parts of the country, are just S.O.L. This thread has me very surprised at how many people talk as if most people have sources like that within reasonable driving distance (it’s just not the case across much of the country, unless you include places like Dick’s Sporting Goods).
I DO agree that if a person has the chance to try boats, it’s definitely a good thing, even if beginners in that situation lack the skills to figure out the things they could after they’ve been at it a while. Like you say, even at worst, they will benefit in ways they couldn’t if lacking the chance to demo.