This is some of the worse advise ever
This is some of the worse advise ever! Both my wife and I didn’t have much experience in boats and demoed multiple boats before we bought. We both found boats we never would have picked out in a shop and never regretted our decision. I demoed a Greenland boat before they were “cool” and would never have bought one if I hadn’t paddled it first. At a demo day you can generally try more boats than any retailer can keep in stock. You might just find the boat you love and it isn’t a regularly stocked item.
After selling boats for 11 years I had many customers that after getting information from me made their final decision at a demo day. No matter what an “expert” tells you sometimes you just find the one that feels right and you can only do that by trying it.
You are different than a guide or instructor and have different goals than they do so make your own decision. I’ve heard to many “guide/instructors” on here recommend something because that is what they own, or they’ve drank one particular manufactures Kool aid. That is utter crap, you need to get a variety of opinion and don’t discount a sales person, most people in small shops enjoy what they do and enjoy making sure you have a good experience, that’s how they stay in business so don’t count their opinion out either.
Yeah it was contested
It appears you didn’t like the responses that did that.
Living near an outfitter
My husband and I demo’d a bunch of boats which did not have a dealer anywhere near us. We did it by looking around where we traveled, and taking the opportunity if we saw one go by.
So we demo’d at the only P&H dealer - then - in all of downstate NY by allocating time for it on a trip to visit my husband’s parents, 5 hours away. The dealer was about an hour further east of where they were on LI. We demo’d a bunch of other boats by finding a dealer an hour from we vacation each summer, and took a few day trips to go down there. Where we vacation is an 8 hour drive. We checked out boats in a shop near where my sister and brother-in-law live when visiting them, in the mountains three hours north.
I am not saying everyone can have family so conveniently located. But I suspect that many people could get more seat time and enjoy the experience as well by looking more than 40 miles from their front door.
My B.I.L. is going to get into WW kayak
He has some ocean SOT experience. But when it comes to river whitewater, he’s as green as green can get.
So which would be better for him: Trying 3 or 4 WW kayaks, or having really experienced WW paddlers tell him what he should buy?
The answer’s not even a close call.
I may be lucky…
to live in the SF bay area. Between here and Monterey, there are several shops and a few clubs which will allow you to demo boats. I bought the first boats in Monterey (60 miles south of where I lived) because I mostly paddled in Monterey and the shop owner earned my business.
I don’t buy any large purchases (being seriously frugal means I that virtually anything now qualifies as a large purchase) without a long period of consideration. It was several months between my decision to buy boats and the actual purchase and in that time, I went from novice to low intermediate in ability and I never would have purchased the boats I did buy if I hadn’t taken several models out on the water and read Sea Kayaker, Foster, and Dowd beforehand (the magazines and books did a pretty good job of describing what to look for).
If I were not able to do this research ahead of time, I probably would have deferred the purchase or not made one at all, since that is how conservative I can be with money. Any outfitter that didn’t allow me to test several boats I refused to do business with and let them know it. Usually, they responded with, “well, ok, you can take one out…”
Rick
That “40 miles from front door” sounds…
... sarcastic to me, since I really haven't heard of a serious buyer unwilling to drive an hour, or even several. You are right that some people can do what you describe but a lot certainly can't (I myself don't even get extended vacations during paddling season except when the economy sucks, like right now). And none of this addresses the demo needs of canoe-buyers. I live less than two miles from one of the largest paddle shops in the country, but they only carry a few brands and the odds are slim that they'll have the particular model you want to demo (of the four canoes I have purchased, not one of them would have been available to demo, unless a "demo" includes the option of purchasing the boat knowing that when it arrives three months later, you could return it if you don't like it). I bet that paddle shops that, unlike this one, aren't almost in the heart of "canoe country", offer even fewer demo options for canoes. And if you want a canoe or similar boat from a smaller manufacturer, what then? You don't try it out - you simply buy it based on what you know about its design.
More important for novices than
experienced. Of the 7 boats I own only 1 was demoed before purchase. Sometimes you just jump on a good deal and with used boats they can be resold for very close to what you paid or sometimes more, especially with cult boats. Some have desirable features such as folding or sectional boats and demoing can be difficult.
Supporting example
I would like to purchase a large, solo tripper, e.g. Swift Shearwater. The closest Swift dealer to me is a 7 hour drive, and according to their website they don’t even have one let alone one for demo.
Experts aren’t always
One of my bugaboos was people who underestimated the difference between a truly small/light paddler and one who is merely “below the size and weight of an average man.” Some dealers will push you to buying what they have in stock rather than referring you to something that fits better, especially if that something is available from a competitor.
Also, there is a big range of personal preference for high-deck-dry-ride vs. lower volume boats.
Then there’s the question of how willing the new paddler is to changing boats within a few years. Somebody might be adamant about “never having to buy another boat again” (hah). If that person demos (or better yet, rents several of them over a longer period), at least they’ll rule out the ones they really don’t care for.
Caveat emptor, ALWAYS.
Getting “the right one,” first shot
Good luck with that one! My experience was similar to yours: the boat wasn't a great fit, but it was serviceable enough for me to start learning in and get hooked on the sport.
I wonder if the people who insist that they can find the "right boat" so soon also have the same expectations for girlfriends or boyfriends. Sometimes you have to get your feet wet and figure it out as you go.
That said, always demo or rent where it's possible to do so. At the very least, the person can rule out some boats.
my two best boats
Came from 7 or 8 hours away, at least. Both next to nothing I want to vacation to.
Ryan L.
Maybe
On the sarcasm part, but at best mildly so. It likely reads more so than I meant.
Many of the longer time folks on this board have stretched to try out a boat in which they are interested, whether it be by checking out boat dealers along the route on a vacation or deciding to take a weekend/overnight trip to get to a dealer. It isn’t unusual for true boat whores, but it does seem like an awful lot of work to folks just considering getting into the sport.
I suspect it is mostly due to people not realizing just how specialized and small some of these manufacturers are. Even a “big” kayak or canoe manufacturer is small by the standards of many industries, and the number of places where they can offer some real contact with their products reflects that. It may be that the success of the Dick’s type big box stores is less in what they offer and more in peoples’ expectations that there should be a source of a good long term boat at such easy reach. And if they were trying to buy many sports toys, that would be true. It’s just not so easy for canoes and kayaks.
Fit in Whitewater Boat
How the boat fits is pretty important in whitewater boats, so what may be comfortable for one person 5’10 and 200 lbs, may not work for somebody else. Nice to take guidance from experts, but get in the boat before you buy and see how it feels and paddles with your weight.
As chuck says below with more experience you can make a guess about how well you might fit and if it is an easy boat to flip and sell it’s fine to buy without getting in.
its fun messing around …
in boats. Sometimes it requires a committed relationship- you know how the boat responds and derive pleasure from that. Other times you go try something new just to spice things up. Demoing is a lot like premarital sex without the jealousy!
A few of us are just real smart.
2 out of 8 boats I’ve purchased…
I have actually demoed...
I figure so long as I fit in a boat, whoever designed the boat has FAR more paddling experience than I ever will, and there is something I can learn from the boat. But I do agree it takes at least a season to get to know a boat. I thought this true of motorcycles as well when I was brave enough to ride those...
I sell lots of rec boats to newbies, and it seems the most important thing to them is the amount of cup holders. Some of the rec boats go straight (Pungo) all the others are more "maneuverable" but still have at least one cup holder. More importantly, all the boats play into how easily people can transport and store the boat, and most importantly afford the boat. At least 50% of my customers have "paddled before," even though they don't know they're holding the paddle up-side-down...
I sell 1 boat over 14 feet (if I'm lucky) for every 25 crappy rec boats I sell. And if I can persuade about 1 in 40 people to sign up and take a lesson, I'm doing pretty well. Maybe I'm just a bad salesperson, but I think it's more my well-to-do suburban demographic, working in a somewhat more informed box-store (big in the northeast...) that plays into all this. A lot of the time the boats are just mere lawn ornaments, and the racks are the real determinants of social status (You'd be surprised by the amount of people who don't know how to work a cam strap!!?)
Most people are satisfied to just sit in the boat in the store while I tell them how to adjust the seat and foot-pegs and where all the cup holders are. If you put a paddle in their hands while they are sitting in the boat, then you're pretty much guaranteed a sale, even though I don't make commission. But if I sell one of these pieces of crap, it means one more person paddling instead of sailing\power-boating\jet-skiing or god forbid cycling. It means one more person who might in another year be interested enough to go to a real shop and learn how to sea kayak. Or sets up some freak who paddles their weird little rec boat year round and experiences being on the water for more than a three hour drinking binge. Because that's all that really matters; that people can break out of their normal routine and get out of themselves, even if it's only a few times a summer in their crappy little boats, or becomes a weekly thing when the season permits, or turns into Nigel the hardcore paddler, even if only for a weekend at a time.
And please, don't even get me started on paddleboards...
Good point
I think the OP makes a good point in many ways. I have somewhat thought that myself in the past.
What “feels good” to you as a total beginner probably is going to be something that will limit your growth potential. You will end up choosing a Pongo over an Explorer probably, but I can’t say that is necessarily a good decision in the long run if you have any aspiration of paddling in water bigger than a pond. Thats an extreme example, but you get the point.
Maybe paddling it to see if it fits is a good idea though.
I think it’s kind of like running or biking on a cold day. If you start out feeling comfortably warm you will roast later on. Newbies will always do that b/c they go with what feels good to them vs. what the more experienced person tells them too…and they pay. Same goes with newbies and backpacking–they take too much.
Finally, I am going to say what I have said many times before. You actually can tell VERY LITTLE from a test paddle. If you think you are going to understand how you are going to like the boat based on 60 minutes of paddling on one particular day on flat water, then you are probably wrong.
I have owned over 20 kayaks and an equal number of canoes. You don’t really know what your long term impression of the boat will be until after you have paddled it many times in various conditions.
A boat that feels great on flat water may suck in the wind, or suck in the surf, etc. You won’t know until you paddle it in various conditions for a long enough time to figure out what actually is going on with the boat.
That is a fact. So given that, I would argue that a test paddle is ceremonial. Not to mention that you already have preconceived notions about how you will feel about the boat and your test paddle will just be an exercise in confirmation bias in many instances.
Matt
“The ONLY THING”
The old saying, "the only thing two “experts” can agree on is that the third one is wrong, is proof enough for me to continue advising folks to “demo, demo, demo” as part of any kayak selection.
Anyone doing enough research to read multiple reviews, designer description, vendor propaganda and then ask on a web site like this should by all means possible demo first if at all possible; so as to put some of that info into a meaningful for them context.
IMO, there is no one here giving such foolproof advice that would render a demo counterproductive for any person capable of their own thoughts.
I’m sure there are at least two eXPERTS that can agree I’m wrong. t.george
You’re wrong
Do I hear a second?
There is some merit in both viewpoints
Demos can be misleading and are probably more likely to be so for those who don’t have much paddling experience.
I remember an open boat whitewater clinic I took at NOC back around 1993 when they still had Mohawk boats in their instructional fleet and the Viper had just been introduced. I wasn’t used to a boat with that much edge and the first day I paddled it I hated it. On the advice of one of the instructors I stuck with it and the second day I started to figure it out. By the end of the clinic I decided to buy one.
I also recall the first time I jumped in someone’s Ocoee on the Ocoee and if anything I liked it even less than the Viper the first time I paddled it, but it later became another of my favorite designs.
On the other hand, especially with kayaks, if one is terribly physically uncomfortable the first time one gets in a particular boat, that might not improve. Different people also have different builds, not only different weights but different weight distributions. Some men are rather top-heavy and a narrow canoe or kayak that might suit an “expert” of a different build very well might be like peddling a unicycle for that person, such that they can never relax and be comfortable in it.