i am 5’ 11" 170 lbs. i have been looking to purchase a whitewater kayak. i thought i was decided on the LL Remix 59 but today i sat in both the remix and Wavesport Diesel 70 and i cant decide. please help!!
Both good boats
They are both good boats that are very capable and forgiving river runners. I’m 6’, 185 and greatly enjoy my Diesel 70.
If you can, try each on the water. The main differences between them will be how each feels to you when you are running rapids.
It depends on what you want to do …
The 59 gallon Remix will probably be livelier and more playful, the 70 gallon Diesel would be better if you paddle really big water or you need some extra storage.
Also a question of fit - I personally feel more comfortable with the WaveSport outfitting compared to the Liquid Logic outfitting.
If you plan to ever get or already have a play boat, I’d say go with the larger Diesel so you have one of each.
diesel 70 OR Remix 59
i agree the outfitting, at least the thigh braces, felt nice. but the diesel has some edges, would that make it more difficult to paddle?
Less edge generally means more forgiving - less catching in currents or on rocks. But some like edges - good for carving when surfing…
I have not paddled either of these two but have sat in them. I have paddled similar boats though. For instance I thought that the Piranha Karnalli which is supposed to be less edgy than some other models was not easier to paddle in terms of being less affected by currents than the rather square WaveSport Fuse I now use. The Fuse is very forgiving yet has a rather flat bottom and edges. So it’s not just the edge but where it is placed and the general shape of the hull.
Buy used if you can if you are not sure about the kind of boat. A river runner/creek boat is a safe bet to get you going downriver. But if you find out you are more interested in playing in waves or holes than paddling downriver, then you want something else (a play boat). Or something in-between.
You should be able to fit in a wide range of boats and most shops usually lend their floor models for a day for free or a nominal fee to try.
Boatertalk.com has probably more WW than this board so worth trying there too.
I agree with what has been said.
Lots of gallons difference between your two recomendations and neither boats are “playboat”. As said, the Remix will probably be livilier than the 70 gallon Diesel. At 59 gallons i am thinking you might be on the top of the recommended weight for that boat. I haven’t tried either boats but would like a diesel for bigger water. My guess is that by now you have made your decision.
Buying new or used
I don’t know what your experience/background is but whenever I see posts similar to yours I think of how many great older kayak designs there are out there that can be had on Craigslist for cheap. If you’re new to whitewater I can’t think of any reason to spend 1200.00 on a new kayak.
Diesel 70 OR Remix 59
Why are you comparing 2 different sizes?
Why not compare Remix 59 to Diesel 60 and Remix 69 to Diesel 70? The optimal weight ranges should be similar for them.
I have a Remix and love it, but I’m sure that I would be happy in a Diesel also. The Remix outfitting is awesome, but other boats have their own advantages.(most jackson boats adjust on the fly easily)
I would also recommend looking at the Jackson Hero series, Pyranha Ammo, Karnali, etc.
How much experience do you currently have, and what type of water do you see yourself paddling? If you only have limited experience - your answers may change once you get more time on the water.
If you see yourself spending more time surfing/playing; look at the Jackson Fun series or similar boats.
I don’t know where you’re located, but you should be able to find some demos of either of those boats fairly easily.
I had my Diesel four years.
I'm an inch bigger and a few pounds heavier than you. I'm not a playboater by any means, but I did run plenty of big water with the Diesel. And having the extra volume up front was originally my deciding factor in choosing the boat. Although Wavesport bills it as an all around "SUV" kayak, there is something of a learning curve involved with those edges--So ya better like a challenge with a boat you'll have to grow into with experience, especially in Class III+ water.) Deceptively simple looking squirelly eddies will flip the non-vigiliant in the Diesel.
One of my paddling partners, is still using his Diesel(I'm guessing, at least five years now)and doesn't care to use any other kind of boat...So there's a recommendation.
All that said, my next ww boat will probably be one from Liquid Logic(just cause it's high time I changed brand loyalties.)
Seconding buying used
My Wavesport Diesel and Pyranha I3 cost me less combined than 1 new ww boat costs.
WW paddlers turn boats as if they were nearly all Bowler
Used ww kayaks are plentiful and inexpensive. While outfitting in genuinely old ww boats is fairly primitive, the outfitting of the last number of years has been pretty good.
Diesel 70 OR Remix 59
i have actually decided to go with the remix 69, mainly because i am still growing and i would rather keep the same boat for a long time than grow out of it and then have to sell it.