What the heck is it? Polyester fabric instead of glass, yeah?
When is it used?
Where is it used?
Why?
Advantages?
Disadvantages?
yeah…
When is it used?
today
Where is it used?
on kayaks,canoes
Why?
to make a laminate with better bash resistance,poormans kevlar
Advantages?
cheap,keeps a laminate from fracturing apart once the resin matrix is fractured,think of Wenonas TuffWeave
Disadvantages?
doesn’t sound as fancy as Aramid/Kevlar, not as tough as kevlar, polyester sounds like a leisure suit do it’s called diolene.
A polyester/s-glass laminate would be a mighty tough material. If you want light weight you gotta use lighter materials. Trying to make a light glass/diolene kayak would make for a flexible laminate.
Fuzzy
Diolen will get fuzzy like kevlar if sanded or abraded.
Why is it so common in British boats and not in North American manufactured kayaks?
Seems to be used…
in some Brit boats. P&H and others? Maybe just used in some components but not others?
they’re cheap
– Last Updated: Mar-31-06 6:12 PM EST –
and it works,,I mean frugal.
it’s a kit bag
between all the different fabrics,weaves, core materials,construction methods and hull shapes I think a person could make a durable and quality kayak without resorting to fancy dancy expensive materials as long as super light weight wasn’t a high priority.
Diolen is a trade name
Headquarters in the Netherlands
http://www.diolen.com/ and is European product used in everything from seatbelts, tires, transmission and conveyor belts, ropes, high pressure hoses, and tires…oh and kayaks too. Mixed with glass, carbon or Kevlar it makes the super strong bombproof flexable hulls the Britts are famous for. Cheap…I don’t think so. I think you are all wet on this one Lee
is there a price / yd?
– Last Updated: Mar-31-06 9:17 PM EST –
just curious,, speaking of fire houses I was at the zoo last week and they use old fire hoses for the animals to climb on
polyester properties
– Last Updated: Mar-31-06 8:50 PM EST –
It looks like it is a polyester cloth, based on what it says on the Andrea Mura sail design
website:
"Diolen.
Akso Nobel trade name for polyester fiber."
Here's what it says about polyester on the Sweet Composites website:
"Polyester fabric is primarily used as a cheaper substitute for Kevlar® to impart toughness to a laminate but it does not provide as much stiffness as does Kevlar."
I used a combination of s-glass, polyester, auromat core, and e-glass to rebuild an old whitewater slalom boat. The original layup was extremely light, so I basically just build a new hull around the original layup. I've had it out a couple of times and it performs just fine.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/133354146/1460950476050807370ciqVla
http://community.webshots.com/photo/546900776/2665391440043393545ZMUtsn
more diolen info
A quick Google search turned up a little more info:
www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk
Diolen is a polyester fabric, similar to some sewing fabrics. People have been known to use duvet covers in the deck of boats, for the pattern. It’s difficult to tear, but not as difficult as kevlar. It’s slightly easier to saturate with resin than kevlar is, and is also cheaper.
http://www.teonline.com/trade-terms1.html#d
Diolen
A high tenacity polyester filament yarn produced by Acordis.
http://www.striebel-textil.de
100 % polyester materials such as Diolen, Trevira, etc.
http://www.brockworks.freeserve.co.uk/repairs.htm
Diolen
Actually a polyester fabric instead of glass. Only to be used for the hull as it is very flexible, although very strong
wow
the first link is a trip. Unless it’s some super duper fancy polyester my guess is that it costs the same or a smidge less than fiberglass as Sweets site indicates.
Someone on this site mentioned carbon/polyester cloth as being particularly interesting.
sweet polyester
7yrs ago I made that Chesapeake 16 with 4oz s-glass and 5oz polyester cloth over that,holy crap that was a mistake as it soaked up a LOT of epoxy. There must be different weaves of polyester that soak up resin differently
IMHIP diolene flexes too much
when you mate a stiff part (coaming) to a diolene deck you can get stress risers and spider cracking (or worse)without good design (is P&H listening?)
Diolene: approach with caution.
You have it backwards
the decks are glass, the hull is mixed. thus the super strong hull with a lighter deck. http://www.onkayaks.squarespace.com/ph-orion/
http://www.woodmill.co.uk/acatalog/P___H_Sea_Kayak.html
http://www.seakayakgeorgia.com/island_kayak.htm
possibly
I don’t remember much about how much epoxy the cloth soaked up. I do remember that the polyester seemed kind of thick compared to a comparable weight fiberglass. I tried running it about halfway up the sides, maybe a little more, then trimming it the same way you do with fiberglass. I don’t know if my technique was just particularly bad that day, or if I got to it after the epoxy had cured a bit too long, or if polyester is just tougher to work with, but the results were somewhat less than stellar.
However, the rebuild was supposed to be a low-budget project, and I was doing a lot of experimenting with different things, so it seemed like a good time to try the polyester.
I’ve never looked that close at P&H.
Are cracks radiating from the cockpit rim a characteristic of P&H boats?
I owned a quest carbon kevlar
hull diolene deck. maybe P&h cleaned it up Nobody wanted to deal with my problems.
I’m sure Kevlar is much more costly
that’s a given, but people seem to forget or just don’t understand that there are many proprietary layups that are much stiffer, less costly and much more durable than Kevlar or Carbon. Yes they weigh more. Every maker or designer has their own reason for useing the layups and fabric that they use. The truth is in the paddling. Don’t forget that the first and probably still the best sea kayaks were skin on frame and super flexable and I believe far more sea worthy than any stiff kayak out there. They were not sport boats, they were used to make a living. I’m sure members of Qajaq would agree.
it’s only a material
no one is saying it’s not a worthwhile material. It is. But so are knit cloths, specific applications of unidirectional materials,core materials etc. Have you seen the Necky composites? Cool stuff. When I picked up glass QCC400 without a rudder if felt as light as most kevlar kayaks. My old Express has got regular heavy roving,works fine, beat to hell and full of cracks.
ok,
my point was that diolene/polyester is a useful material that doesn’t fracture when flexed like glass can. It’s cheaper than kevlar which is more effective in resisting fracture,therefore a frugal builder looking for a durable laminate might use diolene/polyester instead of s-glass or kevlar.