Do Women Paddler Have Equal Boat Choices

Agree friendly
and unfortunately in a marketplace where volume and cost seem to drive everything it makes it really tough, even for specialty manufacturers, to invest in developing a product that is a tiny sliver of the pie.


Enough For Smaller Folks…

– Last Updated: May-19-09 1:58 PM EST –

relatively to when I started. I remember railing about the lack of options for smaller folks here 8 or 9 years ago. It may be true then but not true now. Fact is there are enough options though not as much for larger paddlers.

I think there certainly are enough variations to handle most paddling styles and preferences. The only thing that is being added now is really "more of the same" except by different companies.

The only reason to complain about the lack of options is really related to a paddler's attitude that "mo' boats, mo better" and certainly not to the "types" or "styles" of boats for different "conditions." Ultimately, if the smaller paddler has sufficient skills, there are more than enough available options out there to handle said conditions. It's just a matter of preference.

sing

One of the PNet original small paddlers who have come to believe skills trump equipment. If your current well fitting boat doesn't work, it's your lack of skills.

Sing gets officially listed
on the marketing assasination list :slight_smile:



Off to surf!! Sing, I have a “touring” kayak on the way that I think you may appreciate… Fins…

kinda funny when you consider it
Here is a sport (means of survival) originated by small people with very small boats, adopted by caucasians, who tried to maintain the craft’s origins, but scaled it up to fit big white people. And now there’s a shortage of small boats!

and as a big guy i will attest that a
women’s pfd fits me quite nicely (sadly…)



i think that gearwise there is a lot to choose from what with a handful of major manufacturers and more small manufacturers that there is quite a bit of female specific items out there…



boatwise…eh…not yet…

Seriously…

– Last Updated: May-19-09 2:45 PM EST –

I had the options of either mystic or vela as the true low volume picks and the slipstream and montauk were marketed as "small" folks' boats... The options now are real and more than enough.

All the use of subjective words, e.g. sporty, refined, well manner, reassuring, good secondary, blah, blah, blah..., don't mean much in terms of actual performance differences between "types" of boats. These subjective descriptions are great for marketing by different manufacturers but don't really tell much for the individual, until s/he actual sits his/her butt in the boat and goes out in the conditions that his/her skills and preferences allow.

Ultimately, the "right" boat is an interplay of the paddler's skills and preferences. In terms of "fit", there are definitely more than enough options out there... Unless you are an adult locked in a school aged child's body.

sing

Cate, some boats for you to try
Pyranha Z One (S)

Wave Sport Diesel 65

Jackson Punk Rocker or Sidekick

Dagger Axiom (S)

Pyranha Burn (S)

Dagger Mamba 7.5

LL Remix 47

Bliss Stick Mini Mystic



I paddle with quite a few gals in the 5’1 to 5’5" range, some lean and some heavier. They do really well in many of the above boats.



Dogmaticus

There is no small amount of irony in
there.



Dogmaticus

getting better
Having a wife who’s 5’0" has kept me on the lookout for small gear, and it’s a lot better than it was a few years ago. On the lower end, newer boats like the Perception Tribute 12 and Tsunami 135 are much better options for smaller folks than their larger cousins. There’s the CD Raven and Tsunami XS for even smaller folks. Whitewater boats come in a wider range of sizes. More paddle manufacturers are offering small-shaft and small-blade options.



It’s getting better because a critical mass of women made it clear that they’d spend money on the right gear, and manufacturers listened. Keep it up! If you see a need, speak up! If a manufacturer sees a good-sized customer base that’s not being served, they’ll jump on it, but only if they know there’s a demand.

deck height, thigh braces, cockpit fit
Great posts!



How about the ability just to have correct cockpit fit.



Foredeck height so it does not interfere with forward stroke.



Thigh braces that are not too far apart and not too far forward.



Seat size and placement to allow layback for bracing and rolling



Not too much “secondary” stability, to actually make edging difficult



Accessibility of day hatch and or foredeck glove compartment so it is reachable.



Etc.

How about next time you post stuff like
this on the Paddlers Discussion Forum?

If made to fit, still too much kayak.

– Last Updated: May-19-09 5:21 PM EST –

Not all, and options are better than they were, but we still have smaller folks in 17'+ x 22"+ kayaks with 12" or deeper foredecks....

Performance wise it's about like me paddling a 20' x 26" sea kayak that's 15" deep (and I'm not a tall guy). Sure, I could just pad it out...

OP asked a question, and…
… is getting “Advice, Suggestions and General Help” in response. It’s also 100% paddling related! This board’s emphasis does not preclude that coming in the form of related discussion (they are ALL discussion boards).



Since your objections to what is posted where are your opinions, and don’t really fall under “Advice, Suggestions and General Help” about paddling, maybe you could keep this stuff on the general discussion forum… :wink:

???
What is your thought about that???

this is a great topic!

– Last Updated: May-19-09 6:53 PM EST –

for paddlers and has a lot of specific info and
thoughtful comments. Thank you for asking for advice on this topic, tideplay.

BTW, while I entirely agree w. sing that nothing replaces butt time and skill development, I am ok w. paddlers using subjective terms because people like to share the experience of butt time and skill development.

We don't need to quote each other catalog specs, paddle lengths, etc. and other purely finite statistics and end there. Might as well just go to the manufacturers sites where we are exposed to even more marketing hype. A chance to convey perceptions is part of human communication. It assumes we have the intelligence to filter perceptions and decide where we want to go from there.

This is sporting equipment for fun and amusement Makes no sense to rate them like medical devices. Users will be subjective -like they are about baseball bats, tennis racquets and skis.

This thread deserves to be archived as least as much as the post that asked for advice on a good canoe dog.

Not that I don't like dogs ;-) But I am more apt
to be choosing a kayak in the future.

Here’s What I Have Learned…

– Last Updated: May-19-09 7:47 PM EST –

Okay, PNet is great if one wants to chat about the sport in general. But, beyond that, taking folks' "assessments" about equipment is almost pointless, unless one is a total newbie and wants some direction in what to actually try as part of checking it out. And even then, it's limited because a newbie's lack of skills also limits their ability to really take the equipment to its design limits. The newbie ends up assessing relatively minor stuff. That's why a lot of reviews of 9 and 10's. (Heck my one and only review was an 8 for a boat I had to outfit like heck but was able to learn to roll and scull in.)

Back to comments by "experienced" folks, early on I used to take it more seriously. But over time I find that what people say is not what I experienced with the same piece of equipment. Part of this is due to different body types, different skills, different mentality around "challenges." And, a few times, folks who present themselves as "experienced" here aren't even so relative to my own range of skills when I meet them in the real world.

Finally, I just think talking about equipment in some ways can distract from the actual doing and developing skills from that because it encourages serial boat/equipment purchases over skills development. I know first hand since I have gone through a number of boats, including building my own SOFs which at 18" wide I still find more stable than my waveskis. But, the "long boat" of my choice these days is my inexpensive Mystic RM. It is just the most enjoyable boat, outside of my waveskis, for the stuff I like to go out and play in. There is no "holy grail" of boats.

If I were able to go back, I would just stick with several boats and play in as rough stuff as I can handle and learn what I like from that. After knowing my preferences, thatn I can go about picking a few boats to match. The lesson for me, is simply that. Focus on skills development and not equipment. With skills one can make even the less optimal equipment work. Of course, this would not be a happy thing for the manufacturers, or the would be boat reviewers...

sing

all views have merit
One of the great things about this board is if one genuinely asks for help, one gets a diverse response. If your skin is not too thin, you get allot out it almost always.



Even though I have been kayaking 38 years, I am still learning. One of my mentors classifies himself as an intermediate despite a billion credentials and accolades, and expeditions in all amazing conditions.



I am big on skills and feeling the boat, learning to calm ones mind. If one focuses too much on equipment and ones own limitations, one frequently finds just that, limitations rather than possibilities.



That said, I believe there is a general sequence from beginner to experienced kayaker where the role of equipment, boat, blade and such matters more early on and less and less as one continues, hence the merit of why I asked this question.



Sing, you do remind me of how I began in white water. My instructor insisted I not use a paddle for the first three weeks! I had to learn directional control, bracing, and even trying to roll, class 2 rapids, even a three foot waterfall and chute all NO paddle. It taught me a great deal and I still use this approach today in theory if not in practice.


Most of these traits
make sense to me, but what is ‘correct cockpit fit’? Correct for who/what? Define please.



The other traits are easy to judge or measure - seat size and placement, fordeck not too high, etc.



Isn’t every body different and isn’t a paddlers preference at best a judgement? Boats are built for the average - the average small person, the average large person and the average average person. If you want the perfect boat tailored to your body size you build a SOF. For commercially produced boats you accept a trade off between different designs - which boat feels best to you and puts the biggest smile on your face. You can’t tell someone this. They must feel it. Maybe a better question would be ‘are there enough choices for smaller framed paddlers?’ I would guess that there are enough choices for what the market would bear. If not, we’ll be seeing a lot more new designs soon.

Best,

~wetzool

How about you quit “policing” every post
Give it a rest g2d… go take a nap.

Please forward posts to me
of women who like the poly eliza. Your point is well taken that it is my opinion that it is a horrible boat; however, I have not read any posts of women raving about it either.