Try just being glad
they decided not to name it the “Kayu”.
http://stwww.canoekayak.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/kayuside.jpg
Next for NEXT? Maybe hung seat for
kneeling/sitting.
That would expand their market even more.
Bet they sell like hotcakes
Even if the 49 lb figure is accurate, it’s still a pig for it’s length. My 14.5’ Sojourn in royalite is several pounds lighter.
But alas, royalex and royalite are no more.
Those of us who know the difference and have the money maybe think little of spending the $1800 + for a composite canoe that we can carry for miles of portaging. But I’d bet most of the potential market is only looking for something that will load easy on the roof of a Kia Soul and be easy to get from the parking area to the water.
I didn’t see any mention of price, but I’m sure it will be far less than any solo canoe I would buy new. But the target market (I believe) is unwilling to pay for a composite canoe or hunt high and low for a decent rx solo canoe just to do some day-paddling.
As much as I don’t want one, I can’t think of any reason to say a new paddler shouldn’t get one…unless there is a ready supply of good used solo canoes (which for much of the US, there isn’t). It certainly must be better performing than the OT Pack or their other versions of same. It’s narrow enough and I even perceive a Swedeform shape in the photos. It may actually paddle quite well for it’s length.
Having said that - the marketing is over the top, for sure. It is a prime example of the use of hyperbole (bordering on outright lies). It scares me to think that people fall for this stuff coming from every direction (especially politics).
Your Sojourn should be close to 47 lbs
actual weight, IIRC.
$999
– Last Updated: Oct-02-14 4:07 PM EST –
They are claiming the Next will be $999, another dumbass promotional trope -- trying to avoid the 4 figure stigma (gee, why not make it $999.99?.)
So though it is 30% to 50% below a light pack canoe, it's still far beyond the rec boat entry market. In their defense (I have friends and family members in the advertising biz), it may have been a good choice for them to target the image-obsessed yuppie crowd with the trendy colors and preppy models. (surprised they didn't offer it in pink, leopard print and Burberry plaid.)
Always plenty of lighter used solos for sale in the classifieds for less than a grand. But some people just want new I guess.
I agree the seat looks dreadful, like trying to paddle from a lawn chair.
Some thoughts on the NEXT, OT Employee
– Last Updated: Oct-23-14 11:50 AM EST –
Hello all. My name is Luke LaBree and I'm the Marketing Manager for Johnson Outdoors watercraft. I've enjoyed reading your responses to the next and I see a lot of interest, questions and some skepticism.
Let me start by saying that this boat is the real deal. Yes, there are similar boats on the market and have been for many years. Some of you have listed a few, including some of our own models like the Pack Canoe and the Discovery 119. While the NEXT might not seem like a ground breaking design, it certainly is in spirit and intent. At first glance it is indeed canoeish, it has the hull style and features of a canoe such as thwarts and deck plates, but that’s really where the canoe similarities end and it begins to become something more. The NEXT is essentially a hybrid of a canoe and a kayak, with the seating, foot braces and performance you’d expect in a kayak thoughtfully integrated into a canoe style hull. For Old Town, this is the merging of two things that we’ve built very well for over 120 years – canoes and kayaks. The NEXT represents something very close to our hearts, a passion for the water and the outdoors, and it showcases our heritage with modern style. This legacy is actually one of the reasons we decided to go in a different direction and not offer it in our traditional red and green colors. We wanted to create something new, but also rooted in all that we’ve learned over the years. It quite literally is our next generation of boat and is designed for today’s paddle enthusiasts, with style and performance that can be enjoyed and appreciated by anyone, novice to expert.
The idea behind the NEXT is something that has existed in paddle sports for generations, a solo-paddler canoe-style boat designed to be lightweight and portable. It provides access to the water where larger boats aren’t suitable, where kayaks might not meet personal preference and where accessibility and management on land for people of all sizes is important. It’s lightweight, it’s not the lightest weight, but for a 13’ boat of this quality it is light. The hull weighs 53lbs and the Element Seat 6lbs, for a total of 59lbs (Updated based on final factory specifications for optimal hull results). More on the weight in a bit. And, yes, the seat is removable, it actually makes a great camp chair. Since the hull is perfect for loading with a bunch of gear, and you can use the seat when you get where you’re going, the NEXT is a great boat for overnight and multi-day trips.
The NEXT is indeed a new design from the ground up. It was conceived by industry veteran boat designer Bob McDonough. This short video shows how the hull of the very first NEXT prototype came together using a traditional wood-strip process. http://youtu.be/9TJO6jb3hGU?list=UUjtSno8gcFbOCMREx-6G9tA - Quick fact – the gentleman in the video building the prototype has been hand crafting boats at Old Town for over 40 years. I had the honor of watching this boat take shape and to paddle each successive prototype. Bob’s goal with this boat was to achieve a personal watercraft that met several criteria and would provide access and enjoyment on the water for literally anyone capable of using a paddle. He wanted a boat that had the open hull benefits of a canoe – storage, carrying capacity, and space but also had the paddling performance of a kayak including tracking, speed and maneuverability. By bringing in the tumblehome and lowering the gunwales the NEXT reduces the wind drag you’d experience in a traditional canoe and reduces the reach distance needed by the paddler. These factors all combine to create an effortless paddling experience. You’ll spend more time enjoying your outing on the water than trying to keep your boat straight, or up to speed, than you would in other offerings.
I saw one point in a response about the seat looking like a “back breaker.” I can understand a lot of the questions raised, but this one had me scratching my head. Comfort was a huge consideration for us, from the foot braces to the seat, we wanted people to be able to enjoy long excursions without aches and pains. The seat in the NEXT is Old Town’s new Element Seat System, first introduced in 2013 in the Predator. Since then the seat has been one of our customer’s favorite features, with regular requests for us to incorporate it into other models. I can sincerely say that this seat provides all day comfort. I personally have paddled the next for several days in a row, 6-7 hours on the water at a time, recently using the NEXT was my platform to shoot photography and video of some of our newer products. The seat is hung from the gunwales and uses a custom rail setup to slide forward and back, allowing you to adjust the trim of your boat to compensate for any load you might have in the bow or stern. To provide another personal example, my wife took our young daughter our paddling in it the other day. Our daughter sat on a boat cushion in the bow facing my wife, so we slid the seat to the rear a few inches to compensate. They paddled around the lake for over an hour picking up beaver chews that were floating around.
Back to the question of the weight. The NEXT was designed to be lightweight and manageable on the water or off, but it wasn’t designed to be the lightest solo boat available. Superlight boats are another category and another price point. The materials needed to make a superlight boat are much more expensive, which would have placed this boat at a price unrealistic for many customers. If it was produced in Kevlar for example, the cost would be nearly twice as much. Royalex, a very lightweight and durable canoe material was a consideration but would have also raised the price. Additionally Royalex stopped being produced by the manufacturer shortly after this boat was conceived, so it was off the table as a material option. We wanted a hull that was going to be affordable and also high quality. To accomplish this we turned to something that we’ve done exceedingly well for decades, and were actually the first to patent. This is our 3-Layer hull process. Patented in the 70s, that patent has since expired and the technology is now used by a number of manufacturers. We believe that Old Town’s 3-Layer boats are the best in the world – and we stand behind that with a lifetime hull warranty.
To bore you with another example from my own experiences; My father got his first Old Town in the early 1980s, a Discovery 174, constructed of this same 3-Layer process. My brother and I subjected this boat to countless torturous adventures, traversing streams where the water level had long receded past decent paddling into boney graveyards of certain death for less stalwart craft. With every rock we dragged it over and shoreline we rammed it into you could almost hear it say “is that all you’ve got?.” He still has and uses that canoe regularly. The hull has maintained its original shape, and despite our less than gentle adventures, we’ve yet to do anything more than create superficial scratches. To put it simply, our 3-Layer boats are heirloom products, and something that you can use the way they were meant to be used, in pursuit of fun and adventure on the water. Leave the kid-gloves at home, the NEXT is meant to be used and when the time comes, handed down to another generation.
The NEXT represents a culmination and celebration of our century of boat building. It’s visually different and uniquely Old Town, whether you love it or remain a skeptic, when you see one out on the water you won’t be able to ignore it.
Today is Thursday October 2nd and I sat down to write this from scratch after I saw this post of Paddling.net. I didn’t work from a bunch of marketing copy or turn to talking points. That’s not to say that I won’t use some of what I’ve written here elsewhere in the future, but for today, this is my original, honest and hopefully informative response. I’ve been beside this boat from day one and paddled every iteration, my family members have paddled it and I’ve been there waiting on shore as they come back to land with a grin from ear to ear. When the NEXT starts shipping in the coming weeks I encourage you to find your nearest dealer with a test pond or pool and judge for yourself. I promise, you will not be disappointed.
Thanks for the detailed and informative
response, especially the clarification regarding the weight.
Since the seat is hung from the rails, is there any contemplation for a web or cane seat that can be hung from the same rails for days when kneeling or a higher seating position are preferred? I think this would extend the market appeal to a larger audience.
I’m willing…
to give it a chance. With the demise of Royalex, the options for a lightweight plastic canoe have gotten a lot more limited, and for my purposes plastic is the best choice–I do a lot of fishing and wildlife photography and plastic is quieter than any other canoe material. I REALLY like the idea of a seat that can be moved forward or backward. That makes a whole lot of sense.
I think what has turned off a lot of dedicated canoe paddlers is the marketing as much as anything. But I understand that the target market consists at least in part of people who would otherwise buy a kayak, and who are not really experienced paddlers (the experienced paddlers probably already have a boat or two that they’re happy with).
Now send me one and let me give it a thorough test run for a year or two…I promise I’ll be fair 
WHO’S NEXT ?
WHOSE NEXT ?
http://www.adventuresportsonline.com/
here’s a pdf report
https://www.google.com/#q=PROFILE++CANOES++OWNERS
Nice ad. Pleasure looking it over.
But’s not for you, the ad is a portal asking NEXT ?
So is this NEXT ?
Yeah not NEXT for me either…maybe kakayong Polynesia ?
But not a 14’canoe
.
A Verlen Kruger’s not NEXT either.
NEXT
I’d like to thank Old Town, JO and the loquacious Mr. LaBree for dumping tons of $$$ into marketing their new invention, the solo/pack canoe (see banner ad at top of page). Why, once young, hip people (for whom 55 lbs may seem light) try a NEXT solo canoe (or double blade it as a pack canoe) and figure out how much fun they can have, it’s only a matter of time until they figure out that as 50+ year-olds post rotator cuff surgery, we make a 13’, 29" max beam boat with significant tumblehome that weighs 20 lbs with the seat - and have for a while. When they say “NEXT,” we’ll be there for them.
Hopefully it works for both companies
There is no doubt that pack style canoes are becoming more popular. We did an overnight trip last weekend and had 10 boats with 2 being pack style canoes - a Placid Rapidfire and a Swift Pack 12. Their owners love them. Having said that, not everyone is interested is spending a couple of grand for a boat, so there should be a good market for these boats at the lower price point.
From a marketing perspective, the target market for these boats probably isn’t the folks hanging around here at P-net. We are already locked in to more traditional boats and paddling styles. Get the price down a little and put these boats in the big box fishing/hunting stores. I’ll bet they would sell, and people would love them.
And maybe someday they will move up to a Placid, Swift or Colden. Or at least to a single blade… (Not that that matters)
Yes
– Last Updated: Oct-03-14 10:58 AM EST –
Though my post was a little sarcastic (on account of the marketing hype), I DO recognize that there's a difference between serious paddlers and would-be paddlers, in terms of target markets. A certain percentage of those who buy entry-level boats will get hooked on the sport, and eventually acquire nicer boats. As much as I like Charlie Wilson, I've reminded him of this on a couple of occasions when he'd really been bad-mouthing low-cost boats and the companies that build them, that the easy availability of such boats is why his customers first learned to love paddling, and all of the high-end boat builders owe their living to them. It's best for everyone if boats like this do well.
By the way, regarding the post from Old Town, it's very rare to see such a well-written piece coming from a company representative of any kind. Few would put forth the effort, and fewer still have the writing ability. That reply by itself fits well with Old Town's reputation for customer friendliness.
Guess I’m In The Minority
– Last Updated: Oct-03-14 12:12 PM EST –
I think any boat that gets folks out paddling is a GOOD thing. I've paddled Placids and would love to buy one for the wife, whom likes to sit low and use a kayak paddle. But the NEXT is definitely a more affordable option for those of us whom are on a tighter budget.
Seat a pain in the keester? well I can fix that; I have an assortment in the boat barn.
Heavy polyethylene? Well, there AINT no royalex thanks to Poly One Corporation. If you make it out of kevlar et al, now you have a boat the target customers can ill afford.
Bright colors, you say? Well, the better to SEE you with, my dear! Shoot, the older I get, the more I like bright colors myself.
Heck, we can't ALL afford Coldens and Placids, and many of the younger, "Target" demographic they're aiming at cannot. If it get's someone out PADDLING instead of putting another motorized craft on the water, I'm "For" it!
The seat…
– Last Updated: Oct-03-14 12:29 PM EST –
The seat looks like an experimental combination of a Crazy Creek seat, a Sitbacker seat, and a lawn chair to me.
Even if I were considering buying a Next (I'm not); the seat would be a deal breaker for me.
Is a wood/cane seat an option?
Just for the sake of argument, let's say the seat is as comfortable as a Stratolounger...........
When/if the seat fabric gets torn, or the aluminum seat frame gets bent or broken; how much is a replacement seat going to cost?
Same question about the rail system used to adjust the seat's position. What is replacement cost?
Simple questions that could be answered with 2 figures.
BOB
PS My jab at available colors was non serious.
How could I, having recently purchased a pinkish colored, old school, Mad River Flashback, possibly be concerned about color. If the prospective buyer demographic says day glo colors are in; by all means give em what they want.
I would much prefer my Flashback to be red, but I bought the boat for the hull design, not for the color.
that type seat is quite common
– Last Updated: Oct-03-14 12:07 PM EST –
on fishing kayaks. The Jackson boats and the Native Watercraft boats have them. They are quite comfy, much more so than a sit backer. They are also quite expensive.
http://www.austinkayak.com/products/5995/Native-First-Class-Swivel-Seat.html
http://www.austinkayak.com/products/15027/FeelFree-Gravity-Kayak-seat.html
But you have to want to sit in the same position all day - kinda of like an office chair.
My personal preference is traditional seat and I can add pads backs etc as I want. Sit or kneel.
YMMV
cc
While at Confluence…
did Bob McDonough help design the Mad River Canoe Serenade Series of canoes?
You may be right.
I haven’t ever weighed it. But the specs from Dagger were 44lbs for aluminum gun’l and 47lb for wood, IIRC. Mine is aluminum.
Either way - the point is the same. The Next is heavy for it’s length. But in this case, price and availability matters more than weight.
this is so weird
Do you really think this helps your brand?
Buy some ad space already. Otherwise the admin will have to create a new forum for manufacturers and vendors to bicker back and forth.
Maybe where you live…
“Always plenty of lighter used solos for sale in the classifieds for less than a grand”
Not so much for others. Other than the OT Pack - in the last four years, I have seen a grand total of three solo canoes on the local CL. I bought mine from two states away - only because I had family there to pick it up for me. I’m pretty sure that more of the US is like here than not, in that respect.